Author Topic: Liberation is scary  (Read 4553 times)

DiscoUkulele

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Liberation is scary
« on: June 28, 2010, 05:26:43 am »
I'm not sure if this is the correct board for this, but it seemed like the most appropriate.

I'm still new to Discordianism. I actually just finished reading the PD about a week ago, but something about it just clicked with me, which is why I'm here.

Very long and personal story short, I grew up as a conservative Christian. I was never an asshole about it, but I was incredibly devout. And then I had something traumatic happen to me that completely shattered my entire faith system, my trust in the elders of my church, and my relationships with my family.

I try to laugh about it now.

Anyways, after that, I started bouncing around from belief system to belief system, but I was never able to find anything that really felt right for me.  And even though I left Christianity several years ago, bits of it are still in my subconscious and pop up from time to time. Mostly the guilt and occasional bits of fear.

And then I stumbled on the PD.

My first reaction after reading it was "Wow, the universe really is totally chaotic and blindly holding onto any sort of concrete belief system is totally ridiculous.  :mrgreen:" And after my experiences with "The Church" (which I'm still trying to work through), it was really, genuinely liberating.

But then, that quickly turned in to "Oh shit, the universe is totally chaotic and blindly holding onto any sort of concrete belief system is totally ridiculous  :aaa:"

SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GETTING AT, DISCOUKULELE???

Letting go of a religion/worldview/whatever is incredibly liberating, but it's also pretty hard, honestly. If you've managed to do it, how did you do it? And how do you keep it from clinging on to the back of your mind?

Eating a Hot Dog on a Friday seems like it'd be a fun ritual, but I was never Catholic, so I don't think it would work :(
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Freeky

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2010, 05:46:44 am »
Well, DU, I can only tell you about my personal experience. I was introduced to Discordianism by Doktor Howl. The thing you have to be careful of, he told me back when TGRR was alive, was how quickly your eyes get opened to The Truth, which is a horrible thing. Or maybe it was the Weird, I can't really remember.

Anyway. Once you realize how bad things are (and on this board, it's pretty much a certainty you're going to get a good look at precisely how bad things are), you won't have much trouble getting on with your life without all that religion stuff.

Welcome to the Age of Horror, please turn your head and cough.

Nast

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 05:58:39 am »
I too used to be a Christian, because I was brought up in that environment. But I quickly became disillusioned with all the superstition and self-righteousness. It certainly is a weight off one's back to not worry about following all the prescribed rules and regulations, being smote for sodomy, or having to listen to all the goddamn insipid acoustic guitar music inherent to the religion.
I guess it's easy for me to forget about it because I never really believed in it in the first place.

Now, the way I think about it, the origin of things and the belief systems built up from that don't really matter.

Some people need a Sky Daddy or the belief in the invisible and immortal soul to validate their existences.
But for me, it doesn't change my life. Whether or no we're soulless meatbags, merely trillions of subtly vibrating parts doesn't change anything. We still feel what we feel; love, anger, despair. Icecream is still delicious. Life is still worth living.

And I'm perfectly content to know that when I die, every bit of me will eventually return to the continuum from whence I came, decomposed and deconstructed. Everything in the universe shares the same fate.

I'm comfortable with this outlook, so it's easy to not look back.



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Fujikoma

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 08:49:22 am »
Nothing is true, everything is permitted... I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, Disco... I had a bad experience with the church, but it likely wasn't as bad as yours, I was merely rejected for being psychotic... This is my second post, btw, so I really carry no weight in this community and can, in no way, represent them... But I am an independent practitioner of All Kinds Of Shit, and while I like company, company doesn't much like me... I don't know.

Changing your belief system is hard at first, but being able to shift paradigms is essential to understanding reality... It's like a muscle you never used before, you're going to have to work to build it up, but, once you do, it'll be easy.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:45:33 pm by Fujikoma »

Pope Pixie Pickle

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 12:03:47 pm »
please to define psychotic....


Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 04:30:00 pm »
I was raised in a conservative Christian family as well and had a similar experience to yours. What I have found appealing about Discordianism is that it becomes your responsibility to select your reality. Life is Meaningless we're all fucked; Life Is Meaningless, Let's Have Fun; Life Might Be Meaningless, But I Can Give Mine Meaning; Life Has Meaning, Its The Act of Experience... etc etc there are many, many ways to interpret it.

For me, I've found myself in all of those views from time to time... and after a decade of poking my brain with a stick I've come to enjoy the freedom and responsibility that comes with driving your own destiny. I got through it my forcing my brain into a number of different systems and seeing what happened. From time to time I still get a surprising pop from the past, but the 'Cosmic Schmuck' concept applies nicely.

Quote
The Cosmic Schmuck Principle holds that if you don't wake up, once a month at least, and realize that you have been acting like a Cosmic Schmuck again then you will probably go on acting like a cosmic schmuck forever; but if you do, occasionally, recognize your Cosmic Schmuckiness, then you might begin to become a little less Schmucky that the general human average at this primitive stage of terrestrial evolution.

Any religion that you are raised in, creates programs and imprints that may be impossible to completely erase. So it might be that sometimes, the best we can do is identify these programs when they pop up and deal with them. Becoming conscious of your programming is a big step.

For some people that are used to religion, various 'magical' systems are helpful, for others the more materialistic 'metaprogramming' concepts work better... either way, its about taking control of your brain.

"Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" (thinking for oneself can be scary, liberating, paralyzing, ecstatic and confusing... but it can still be a hell of a lot of fun).  :fnord:
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Cramulus

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 04:37:14 pm »
Quote
Letting go of a religion/worldview/whatever is incredibly liberating, but it's also pretty hard, honestly. If you've managed to do it, how did you do it? And how do you keep it from clinging on to the back of your mind?

Great post, welcome aboard!

I was raised religious. In a parallel universe I am a pretty devout Christian. Seriously, if I hadn't found Taoism and Discordjia, there's a good change I would have been a priest or something.

I think my worldview was most drastically shifted by taoism, which led to a sense of stillness and moral relativism which I found much more sensible than accordance with christian dogma. And I followed the Tao pretty closely for a while, but found it really hard to stay detached from a world filled with such constant fascinating stimulus.

Then I read the Principia and I was sold. Eris had me on the first day, hook line and sinker.

It's only gotten weirder since then.



AFK

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 04:47:31 pm »
I was raised Baptist.  Not the Southern kind, the NorthEast kind.  At least the music is better in the Southern kind.  Anyhoo, I actually gave up the Baptist thing when I was 13.  My grandmother passed away, not too long after being baptised.  Baptists don't get baptised at birth like Catholics and other strains of Christianity.  You can't do that, or communion, until you are ready.  You are taught that if you do it wrong/too early that you piss of God.  Anyhoo, I was very close to my Grandmother who was quite the character.  Always laughing and joking around.  And when she passed, and people kept telling me, "Well, God does everything for a reason", that was pretty much when I said "see you later" to Christianity.

So I'd pretty much been aereligious since then.  Not really atheist or agnostic, just, not anything.  What's funny is I was turned onto Discordianism by a Christian.  This guy I worked with back in the Retail Hell days.  He let me borrow the PD for a trip I was taking to New York and I read the thing like 5 times or something.  It really resonated.  It was stuff I realized I always believed in, even when I was a Christian.  So, it was like I was always a Discordian, I just didn't have a label for those thoughts, feelings and beliefs. 

But I don't think of Discordianism too literally as a religion.  It's more of a philosophy for me. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

DiscoUkulele

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 05:13:49 pm »
Thanks a lot for the responses so far.

I was raised Baptist.  Not the Southern kind, the NorthEast kind.  At least the music is better in the Southern kind....You are taught that if you do it wrong/too early that you piss of God.  

Haha, I was raised Southern Baptist. You know, the real kind. They certainly know how to put the fear of God in you. I used to have pretty vivid nightmares about hell all the time.  :|

I was raised in a conservative Christian family as well and had a similar experience to yours. What I have found appealing about Discordianism is that it becomes your responsibility to select your reality. Life is Meaningless we're all fucked; Life Is Meaningless, Let's Have Fun; Life Might Be Meaningless, But I Can Give Mine Meaning; Life Has Meaning, Its The Act of Experience... etc etc there are many, many ways to interpret it.

For me, I've found myself in all of those views from time to time... and after a decade of poking my brain with a stick I've come to enjoy the freedom and responsibility that comes with driving your own destiny. I got through it my forcing my brain into a number of different systems and seeing what happened. From time to time I still get a surprising pop from the past, but the 'Cosmic Schmuck' concept applies nicely.

Quote
The Cosmic Schmuck Principle holds that if you don't wake up, once a month at least, and realize that you have been acting like a Cosmic Schmuck again then you will probably go on acting like a cosmic schmuck forever; but if you do, occasionally, recognize your Cosmic Schmuckiness, then you might begin to become a little less Schmucky that the general human average at this primitive stage of terrestrial evolution.

Any religion that you are raised in, creates programs and imprints that may be impossible to completely erase. So it might be that sometimes, the best we can do is identify these programs when they pop up and deal with them. Becoming conscious of your programming is a big step.

For some people that are used to religion, various 'magical' systems are helpful, for others the more materialistic 'metaprogramming' concepts work better... either way, its about taking control of your brain.

"Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" (thinking for oneself can be scary, liberating, paralyzing, ecstatic and confusing... but it can still be a hell of a lot of fun).  :fnord:

Thanks for this. I really like that. :)

I too used to be a Christian, because I was brought up in that environment. But I quickly became disillusioned with all the superstition and self-righteousness. It certainly is a weight off one's back to not worry about following all the prescribed rules and regulations, being smote for sodomy, or having to listen to all the goddamn insipid acoustic guitar music inherent to the religion.

haha yeah, this is precisely what the issue was. My church was very much a "God gives gay people AIDS and sends them to Hell" kinda place, and after I was outted to my family, the church talked my parents into putting me through "ex-gay" therapy. Which, even though the whole thing was totally ridiculous and pretty funny now, it certainly left me pretty neurotic.  :argh!:

I think I'm going to read the PD a few more times and take this whole thing a bit slower.

Anyways, thanks again :)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 05:16:31 pm by DiscoUkulele »
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Doktor Howl

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 06:01:21 pm »
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...

It is?

That's the most horrible thing I've heard all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust
Molon Lube

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2010, 06:02:29 pm »
Nothing is true, everything is permitted... I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, Disco... I had a bad experience with the church, but it likely wasn't as bad as yours, I was merely rejected for being psychotic... This is my second post, btw, so I really carry no weight in this community and can, in no way, represent them... But I am an independent practitioner of All Kinds Of Shit, and while I like company, company doesn't much like me... Might have something to do with being a lunatic, I don't know.

Changing your belief system is hard at first, but being able to shift paradigms is essential to understanding reality... It's like a muscle you never used before, you're going to have to work to build it up, but, once you do, it'll be easy.

Oh, dear...Another "psychotic".

*yawn*
Molon Lube

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2010, 06:03:28 pm »
Well, DU, I can only tell you about my personal experience. I was introduced to Discordianism by Doktor Howl. The thing you have to be careful of, he told me back when TGRR was alive, was how quickly your eyes get opened to The Truth, which is a horrible thing. Or maybe it was the Weird, I can't really remember.

Anyway. Once you realize how bad things are (and on this board, it's pretty much a certainty you're going to get a good look at precisely how bad things are), you won't have much trouble getting on with your life without all that religion stuff.

Welcome to the Age of Horror, please turn your head and cough.

TGRR was a bad influence on all of us, and I'm glad the bastard's dead.  He upper-decked my friend's toilet one Friday night.  Just for kicks.
Molon Lube

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 06:23:30 pm »
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...

It is?

That's the most horrible thing I've heard all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

I find the term is often misused out of context.

Nothing is True (in the context) indicates that no one thing is True for ALL. No two cells in the Black Iron Prison are identical. No two views from the prison window are identical.
Everything is Permissible to YOURSELF. IE Non Servim, Think For Yourself, Schmuck, Remodel your BIP.

I think in the translation to English, it loses a lot of its meaning.

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2010, 06:25:31 pm »
Nothing is true, everything is permitted...

It is?

That's the most horrible thing I've heard all day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

I find the term is often misused out of context.

Nothing is True (in the context) indicates that no one thing is True for ALL. No two cells in the Black Iron Prison are identical. No two views from the prison window are identical.
Everything is Permissible to YOURSELF. IE Non Servim, Think For Yourself, Schmuck, Remodel your BIP.

I think in the translation to English, it loses a lot of its meaning.



So doing evil is okay, so long as you do it by yourself?
Molon Lube

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Re: Liberation is scary
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 06:25:41 pm »
Considering Cain more or less demonstrated that Hassan i Sabbah never even said that in the first place, one might think they could make up a better non-translation.