Copyright

[malvarma]

I forgot, nobody is ever willing to back down from any sort of conflict if it means being the first one to do so.  Because civility is just too unthinkable.  Pardon me.

Tell me what to apologize for and I'll do it.

Charley, I apologize if I made you upset, but I'm not apologizing for my copyright politics.

[Adios]

And your point?

That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.

If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.

I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?

1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?

2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.

Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.

That says it all.

Yes. I told you. I do not understand the trust part. Maybe you can explain it to me.

Did you trust everyone on the internet was not a pirate?

Please read my post again and explain to me why I am a threat to your intellectual property, but thousands of internet pirates can be trusted.

You are dense aren't you? There has always been IP on this board and it has been for the most part respected. On the rare occasions it hasn't been respected then the thieves have been banned and it is not easy to get banned from here. See, here we trust each other and a lot of what is posted here is Kopyleft and noted as such. All Kopyleft can be used as long as it is not for profit and if the OP is credited.

Just because you waltz in here claiming theft is just fine kind of walks all over the trust factor and therefore I removed my story. Also as long as you are here it will remain removed.

[malvarma]

And your point?

That you have none. Just bad names to call me and no real arguments.

If you had a real argument, you'd explain why you didn't take down your story before I got here, even though there were already pirates on the board who could have copied your work.

I have answered you. It was a matter of trust before you showed up. Why are you obsessed about my story?

1. I don't understand the trust part. Maybe you could explain it to me. When you put your story online for all to see, you allowed the members of this board as well as anyone else with an internet connection to read and copy the work. Did you trust that everyone else on the internet was not a pirate? Doesn't that seem unreasonable?

2. I'm concerned about your story because I think it's a shame you took it down. Everyone here really enjoyed reading your story, and you shouldn't let your fans down just because you are scared someone might pirate your book. Fact is, even if you printed it, published it, and sold it in bookstores, someone could scan your book and upload it to an e-book hub. Does that mean you should just give up writing altogether? Everything we artists create is subject to piracy, but the passion we have for art is too great to let pirates ruin a good thing. I think the whole board would like it if you posted your story again.

Besides, why would anyone pirate your book if you are already putting it online for free? If it's already online for free, there is no reason to make it free.

That says it all.

Yes. I told you. I do not understand the trust part. Maybe you can explain it to me.

Did you trust everyone on the internet was not a pirate?

Please read my post again and explain to me why I am a threat to your intellectual property, but thousands of internet pirates can be trusted.

You are dense aren't you? There has always been IP on this board and it has been for the most part respected. On the rare occasions it hasn't been respected then the thieves have been banned and it is not easy to get banned from here. See, here we trust each other and a lot of what is posted here is Kopyleft and noted as such. All Kopyleft can be used as long as it is not for profit and if the OP is credited.

Just because you waltz in here claiming theft is just fine kind of walks all over the trust factor and therefore I removed my story. Also as long as you are here it will remain removed.

1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work. Like I mentioned before, I haven't even read it. My politics are separate from my behavior towards friends, and I wouldn't repost anything from this board without asking first.

2. There are other members here just like me, who believe in copyleft principles, yet you did not take your work down for their sake. They believe in the same ideas as me, but you have given them your trust. Any one of them could have pirated your work, yet none of them did. And neither have I.

3. You have not considered non-member pirate lurkers who could have pirated your work without even becoming a member or agreeing to your unwritten contract of trust. So really, your work was always at risk of being pirated. My arrival changed nothing.

4. I never claimed theft was fine. In our chat on IRC, I told you I believe artists should receive compensation for their hard work. I only argued that A. Works should enter Public Domain sooner than then already do and B. That in spite of piracy, artists could still make money by adopting new business models that take piracy into account.

Of course, you might argue I implied taking an artist's hard work without paying for it was fine because I told you I downloaded music. Like I explained to you, there are two types of music I download online.

1. Works by pro-piracy independent artists and copyleft music
2. Works by artists who are long dead.

Only the second is illegal, but I don't see it as theft, because the artists can no longer make money off it anyway. Just because something is the law doesn't make it right, and I'm sure all the recreational marijuana users, or anyone who has driven 5 miles over the speed limit will agree with me.

Despite pirating music, I still buy CDs from new living artists who I think deserve it.

Please, I in no way wish for your copyright to be infringed. I hope we can come to an understanding.
Sorry if I made you upset.

[Adios]

I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.

[Suu]

Oh hey, Greg already emailed me back. He must not be busy.

Hey Angela,

Long time no chat indeed! Thanks for the note, and for the questions.

As we've discussed previously, fan art can be a sticky subject and it's surrounded by a world of gray matter when it comes to legalities. One thing is for sure, the subject of the artwork is always the property of the creator. Plain and simple. Then, it is up to the creator to decide whether they will permit fan creations of their work or not. Fortunately in the comic industry, the majority of the creators are very lax about this. We look forward to other interpretations of our work and I personally find it very flattering.

Fan art is also a fantastic way to find new artists for the industry! It's how I got my job, after all. It's also a great way for new artists to sharpen their own techniques. Copying off of a seasoned artist's work has been the way of many masters going back hundreds of years. Even the Romans copied Greek artwork. Fan art is only a serious issue if the artist either boasts that the creation is their own, or makes an incredible amount of profit off of it. Both of these instances are rare, but they can occur, as you have unfortunately experienced before. This is where a lot of strange gray areas come in.

For example, anyone can draw Spider-Man, and it's a sure bet that 99.9% of the human race will know that Spidey is Stan Lee's creation, and not their's. But if you trace an existing cell of him, then you could have issues, because then it's a true copy, and not just a fan interpretation of Spidey.

Now, in the case let's say of when you were working on Radical Empire, no one knew what the heck that was, and if you posted cells on the internet, it could have been snagged and you could have been screwed. Fortunately, you knew to not put anything high-res on your website, so when the thief tried to pass off prints of your artwork and bad sketches of your characters as her own, you had her pinned, because screen resolution prints like crap, and they didn't have your little stickers of authenticity on them. GOOD JOB!

Now writing is a completely different beast, I'm afraid, darling. Especially with the internet. The best advice I can give any paranoid writer is to keep their work away from prying eyes until publishing. However, on the flip side, offering your draft to an internet message board, in the case of the instance you presented me, is also a great way to get some great 3rd party advice and editing.

My advice to you and to anyone who is interested in making a career out of writing, or just looking to get a book published, is to be VERY careful as to where and when you release it to the public. Yes, most word processing programs on your computer will keep a log as to when it was created, and yes, the Poor-Man's Copyright method of mailing it to yourself is still a viable option, but with today's technology, both can be faked. Chances are the average pirate won't go through the pains of making sure they have enough false evidence, but I wouldn't hold it against the super-nerds out there. I mean, if they have enough time on their hands to make stupid computer viruses at the same time as reading my comics and living in their mother's basement at age 45, then well, who's to say they won't hack a word document either?

Making your writing available on the internet is still, in the end, your choice, but I would recommend a website like Fictionpress or Scribd to host it rather than a simple cut and paste on a forum. That will give you a little more protection, but not a guarantee.

I do hope that this helps! And please don't be a stranger.

As for New York Comic Con, I haven't signed on as a guest yet, but I'll let you know if something develops.

Sincerely,

Greg Land

[Adios]

Thanks Suu. You are great!

[malvarma]

I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.

Thank you for understanding. I also accept this truce.
I pledge to all members here that I will not copy anything you post without permission.
Charley, I hope in time, you can learn to trust me and repost your story, for the benefit of your fans.

After reading Suu's letter, perhaps you can consider hosting on sites like Fictionpress or Scribd to give you extra protection.

[Adios]

I will go only as far as an uneasy truce for now. War over.

Thank you for understanding. I also accept this truce.
I pledge to all members here that I will not copy anything you post without permission.
Charley, I hope in time, you can learn to trust me and repost your story, for the benefit of your fans.

After reading Suu's letter, perhaps you can consider hosting on sites like Fictionpress or Scribd to give you extra protection.

Quoted for possible future use.

[Doktor Howl]

1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work.

So you admit that piracy is morally wrong.  Good job, kid!  You'll have an ethical standard in no time!

[malvarma]

1. I respected your intellectual property, for I have not pirated any of your work.

So you admit that piracy is morally wrong.  Good job, kid!  You'll have an ethical standard in no time!

Don't just quote mine. Read my entire post.

Of course, you might argue I implied taking an artist's hard work without paying for it was fine because I told you I downloaded music. Like I explained to you, there are two types of music I download online.

1. Works by pro-piracy independent artists and copyleft music
2. Works by artists who are long dead.

Only the second is illegal, but I don't see it as theft, because the artists can no longer make money off it anyway. Just because something is the law doesn't make it right, and I'm sure all the recreational marijuana users, or anyone who has driven 5 miles over the speed limit will agree with me.

Regardless, the war is over now.

[Adios]

War over only refers to me, I speak for none other.

[East Coast Hustle]

I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.

[Doktor Howl]

I gotta admit, this sort of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill but I wasn't present for the IRC part of the conversation so I have no way of knowing for sure.

I'm just being an ass.   

[Cain]

I stand by everything I said ITT

[LMNO]

Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is copyrighted.

This was one of my favorites.