Hypothetical Situation #001

[Triple Zero]

Great concept for a thread, Sigmatic! cheers

You guys are thinking way too tactically.  And like cheap Hollywood terrorists.  Do you really think you could control the entire world without a level of consent?  Have you given any thought as to how you would manufacture this?

Because I'm sad to admit cannot come up with things as the scenario you just sketched, even though similar things are happening right under my nose ...

And I never really liked games such as Diplomacy or Risk [read: I really suck at them], so I'd rather come up with ummmm hacking Google or something

So maybe I should augment such a Hollywood scheme with hiring a really smart geopolitics dude, like you. Except that if the guy was really good, I'd probably end up second in command at best, or dead at worst second-best

And of course the question remains, what exactly constitutes world-domination? When can you really be said to dominate everybody in the world, save absolute mind control?

So, with the goal somewhat unclear, I'll go with figuring out a way to hit information infrastructure, and hit it bad. Except that, with say, the Internet crippled and brought to its knees, you'd just get worldwide chaos, and that's a far cry from dominating the world. Maybe it even makes it harder, what do you think? Unless maybe if you'd also have a decentralized army of highly mobile Mongol clones who'd probably do well in such a chaotic scenario.

[Or I could claim spiritual domination by proxy, since the world would be now ruled by our Goddess of Chaos? ]

Is that maybe the reason why nobody does it? The lack of usefullness in worldwide chaos, not even for a bunch of crazy religious terrorists?

Because, thinking back to this essay How to 0wn the Internet in Your Spare Time, it'd require some resources, but nothing too outrageous a rich corporation or small country couldn't acquire.

And I always wondered why computer viruses and worms and botnets aren't more blatantly destructive. The main reason is of course, money. There's no money to be made in wiping 100,000s computers harddisks and crippling a good part of the Internet infrastructure. Plus, it's kind of a one-shot trick, after that your botnet is useless as well as decimated, and you can make much more money if after today's spam session you can rent it out to some other criminals the next day.

But still, with a reasonable amount of money ($100K would go a long way if I'm to believe the prices I've seen) you can rent a bunch of 0wned computers [cheaper than hiring hacker kids and 0wn them yourself, as well as more reliable] and you can get them to run any kind of code [meaning any sort of attack] and do some serious damage. You could probably still hire the hackers and have them code the most potent attack code. Destruction, data wiping and DOS is a lot less secured against than specifically gaining control [note for example how most browsers are still vulnerable to browserbombs hanging the system, while code execution exploits get fixed within days].

Another angle is, XSS/javascript worms on social networks are still very possible. All you need is one XSS hole. Usually they are just abused with relatively harmless vandalism [see the recent Youtube script injection fun by 4chan], or if someone codes a worm it's usually just a proof-of-concept [like the Samy worm], and then it gets closed quickly. But if you're quick enough you can slip in your own violent worm. Since they spread exponentially, they often cover like 60% of the active network within hours. The violent worm could then apply a browser exploit "kit" and 0wn anybody who hasn't updated their system in a while. After spreading, and trying the exploits, it would employ a browser bomb technique in order to confuse and delay the user [I'm not sure but I believe a lot of kits don't think to do this]. Additionally, cleaning up after the worm is for the admin-team is about as much fun as cleaning up after an H orbital spam bombardment, you could also deploy a few "tripwires" specifically to delay the admins, as well as making the worm polymorph [if possible] in order to prevent an automated regex search/replace fixing. On second thought, all that gains you is they will probably put the network/social website into "maintenance mode" until they fix it. But you will still annoy the fuck out of them :-P

Slightly more advanced than a movieploit scheme [it would make a boring screenplay anyway], but all it gains you is an indeterminate amount of chaos, data-loss, denial of service and subsequent financial damage. And possibly not in the places where it would really count. Although goverment and corporate IT systems are surprisingly* insecure, even if they shouldn't be.

*doesn't surprise me that much anymore, after hanging around these boards for a couple of years, reading about the various levels of incompetence that rule our planet.

[Doktor Howl]

What would be the most bloodless way to do it? 

THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT?

[Jasper]

It's a matter of practicality.  The existing powers are much better at killing than any upstart could hope to be.

[Doktor Howl]

It's a matter of practicality.  The existing powers are much better at killing than any upstart could hope to be.

You give me the GNP of America, and I'll have you SWIMMING in blood & bits by next year.  All these other "countries" will be falling all over themselves to pay tribute.

No nukes, either.

[Jasper]

Yeah, I could see that.  But what if you only had, mm, 100 billion to play with?

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah, I could see that.  But what if you only had, mm, 100 billion to play with?

How much does it take to launch a metric ton to orbit.

[Jasper]

At a guess, given $15K/lb about thirty million dollars.

You could put 3,333 such objects into orbit with that amount of money.

Um.

I think I gotta give you that one. 

[Doktor Howl]

At a guess, given $15K/lb about thirty million dollars.

You could put 3,333 such objects into orbit with that amount of money.

Um.

I think I gotta give you that one. 

Yeah, now I have to look up what a metric ton of pig iron costs.

[BabylonHoruv]

That sounds a lot smarter than my plan, which was to use attacks that caused maximum fiscal damage, in order to cripple governments, then supplant them.  The plan had a lot of problems.

Actually, put this way it sounds like the global guerrila strategy, except leave out the supplant them part.

Attacks on networks can cause a return on investment that reaches millions of percent (unfortunately that's not profit to you, that's loss to your targets, but still, very impressive)

[Jasper]

The point is to take money, not to make money.

/Dr. Horrible

[BabylonHoruv]

Attacking the internet is fairly difficult, it is extremely robust.  Attacking the electrical grid is much easier.  There are systempunkts where a few hours work and less than a hundred dollars in tools can cause tens of millions of dollars worth of damage.  Internet can also be cut off by attacking infrastructure rather than software. again with a HUGE ROI.

[Jasper]

Yeah, if you know where the underground fiber optic cables are, and can cut them without leaving clues as to where they were cut...

[BabylonHoruv]

Yeah, if you know where the underground fiber optic cables are, and can cut them without leaving clues as to where they were cut...

Exactly.  And honestly you don't even need to be that careful about clues as to where it was cut.  They'll find it and fix it, but even that is going to cost them a lot more than you invested in cutting it in the first place, and while it is down there is a lot of business that is not being done.  While they are hunting down the cut cable that took out internet service to half of the major metropolis you are drilling a hole in the water main, on the other side of town, so that the half that can get on the internet cannot take a shower.

[Jasper]

And when they complain that they cannot bathe, you bust open a dam near the town.

[BabylonHoruv]

And when they complain that they cannot bathe, you bust open a dam near the town.

That's a bit more bloody and expensive, with the ROI likely to be less, percentagewise.  Might be better to order five dozen pizzas for the mayor and move on to another town at that point.