Controlling firearms

[Don Coyote]

You going to kill me with a rock too? 

No, I was thinking of smothering you with my sweaty fat folds.

[Golden Applesauce]

Many people seek to restrict many rights and freedoms based on making themselves richer, safer of more comfortable.

These people should die with their organs stuffed in their mouth after they have been forcefully ripped off of their bodies.

I know there's a very popular Ben Franklin quote about trading freedom for safety, but the truth is that some level of safety is a prerequisite for freedom.  As an extreme example, if anyone was free to murder you because they don't like what you say, then de facto you do not have freedom of speech.  It just would just be someone other than the government taking away your rights.  If the roads were packed full of drunk, texting teenagers driving around cars at over 150 km/hr, then you don't have the ability to travel anywhere safely, which takes a big bite out of any freedom that can be exercised outside of your house.  If industry is free to dump teratogens and carcinogens into your water supply, you lose the freedom to raise a healthy family, go swimming, and fish.

If you want to operate a firearm, then you have a responsibility to know how to operate one responsibly, just like with any other dangerous device (cars, underwater oil wells, anesthesia, etc.)  I suspect you would also agree that sacrificing the rights of students to bring guns into a classroom is worth the safety and piece of mind it grants to teachers and other students.

[Adios]

Many people seek to restrict many rights and freedoms based on making themselves richer, safer of more comfortable.

These people should die with their organs stuffed in their mouth after they have been forcefully ripped off of their bodies.

I know there's a very popular Ben Franklin quote about trading freedom for safety, but the truth is that some level of safety is a prerequisite for freedom.  As an extreme example, if anyone was free to murder you because they don't like what you say, then de facto you do not have freedom of speech.  It just would just be someone other than the government taking away your rights.  If the roads were packed full of drunk, texting teenagers driving around cars at over 150 km/hr, then you don't have the ability to travel anywhere safely, which takes a big bite out of any freedom that can be exercised outside of your house.  If industry is free to dump teratogens and carcinogens into your water supply, you lose the freedom to raise a healthy family, go swimming, and fish.

If you want to operate a firearm, then you have a responsibility to know how to operate one responsibly, just like with any other dangerous device (cars, underwater oil wells, anesthesia, etc.)  I suspect you would also agree that sacrificing the rights of students to bring guns into a classroom is worth the safety and piece of mind it grants to teachers and other students.

[Don Coyote]

You had me until here.

I suspect you would also agree that sacrificing the rights of students to bring guns into a classroom is worth the safety and piece of mind it grants to teachers and other students.

Now while this wasn't directed at me, it does bring up interesting things.

Assuming we lived in a society where gun ownership was commonplace and accepted this would be a non-issues. I mean we don't so ignore that.

Assuming we lived in a society that had a licensing system for firearms similar to automobiles, in that you could take a gun ed class, get a learners permit to carry around oh say an airsoft pistol or a paintball marker. When you attain a certain age, 18 or 21 seems good, you could get a license, lets call it class R for rifle or P for pistol like with a drivers license having different endorsements on it past class C. While we are at it let's toss in registration of your firearms, and, this is novel, you have to have gun insurance for each firearm you posses. That part sounds ludicrous, but hey it might work.

So, assuming we lived in a society like that, why wouldn't you let the majority of licensed individuals carry firearms to school. Unless I had a retard moment and you meant small children bringing dangerous weapons to school instead of adolescents, and adults, in which case I wold agree.

Of course there are a great many issues with that idea. Who gets to decide what constitutes the bare minimum of gun safety to attain a Class R or P license? What kind of rates would be expected for firearm insurance?

[Triple Zero]

Many people seek to restrict many rights and freedoms based on making themselves richer, safer of more comfortable.

These people should die with their organs stuffed in their mouth after they have been forcefully ripped off of their bodies.

I know there's a very popular Ben Franklin quote about trading freedom for safety, but the truth is that some level of safety is a prerequisite for freedom.  As an extreme example, if anyone was free to murder you because they don't like what you say, then de facto you do not have freedom of speech.  It just would just be someone other than the government taking away your rights.  If the roads were packed full of drunk, texting teenagers driving around cars at over 150 km/hr, then you don't have the ability to travel anywhere safely, which takes a big bite out of any freedom that can be exercised outside of your house.  If industry is free to dump teratogens and carcinogens into your water supply, you lose the freedom to raise a healthy family, go swimming, and fish.

If you want to operate a firearm, then you have a responsibility to know how to operate one responsibly, just like with any other dangerous device (cars, underwater oil wells, anesthesia, etc.)  I suspect you would also agree that sacrificing the rights of students to bring guns into a classroom is worth the safety and piece of mind it grants to teachers and other students.

would you mind using words and sentences to communicate your opinion? for the sake of the discussion? cause all this emoticon tells me is "I disagree and can't be arsed to explain why" which makes it rather hard to put value to your opinion, regardless whether I agree myself or not.

[Adios]

Many people seek to restrict many rights and freedoms based on making themselves richer, safer of more comfortable.

These people should die with their organs stuffed in their mouth after they have been forcefully ripped off of their bodies.

I know there's a very popular Ben Franklin quote about trading freedom for safety, but the truth is that some level of safety is a prerequisite for freedom.  As an extreme example, if anyone was free to murder you because they don't like what you say, then de facto you do not have freedom of speech.  It just would just be someone other than the government taking away your rights.  If the roads were packed full of drunk, texting teenagers driving around cars at over 150 km/hr, then you don't have the ability to travel anywhere safely, which takes a big bite out of any freedom that can be exercised outside of your house.  If industry is free to dump teratogens and carcinogens into your water supply, you lose the freedom to raise a healthy family, go swimming, and fish.

If you want to operate a firearm, then you have a responsibility to know how to operate one responsibly, just like with any other dangerous device (cars, underwater oil wells, anesthesia, etc.)  I suspect you would also agree that sacrificing the rights of students to bring guns into a classroom is worth the safety and piece of mind it grants to teachers and other students.

would you mind using words and sentences to communicate your opinion? for the sake of the discussion? cause all this emoticon tells me is "I disagree and can't be arsed to explain why" which makes it rather hard to put value to your opinion, regardless whether I agree myself or not.

Of course. I didn't mean to imply that no restrictions would be a good thing. I assumed that my intent would be known. I think private businesses, etc should have control of what comes in and out. I, for one, would not want to go to any more bars where people were carrying guns, especially in this society.

AS far as teens texting and driving I doubt laws have much, if any effect on that.

It's like the lines on the road to control traffic, they won't stop you if you decide to cross them.

I do not support anarchy.

[LMNO]

So, it's sounding like most issues... There has to be a line between "everyone do what they want" and "everything not allowed is forbidden."

It sounds like everyone wants to draw the line in a different place.  The most optimistic seem to think that a massive influx of common sense would answer most of the questions that come up, so only minor restrictions need to be established. The most pessimistic seem to think that humans are both violent and stupid, and it would be better if no one had access to devices that make it really easy to kill something.


Most of us appear to fall somewhere in between. 

[Adios]

So, it's sounding like most issues... There has to be a line between "everyone do what they want" and "everything not allowed is forbidden."

It sounds like everyone wants to draw the line in a different place.  The most optimistic seem to think that a massive influx of common sense would answer most of the questions that come up, so only minor restrictions need to be established. The most pessimistic seem to think that humans are both violent and stupid, and it would be better if no one had access to devices that make it really easy to kill something.


Most of us appear to fall somewhere in between. 

I think you have a handle on this. See, owning a gun doesn't mean you have to carry it everywhere you go. As a hunter my rifles mostly stayed in their cases. There was one point in my life that no matter I went I had 2 pistols on me.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'd like to give thanks at this point in time for this very important part of the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution:

...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

SHALL NOT.

BE INFRINGED.

Yes, this means I believe that firearm ownership should not be restricted in any way except at the most basic level (such as not allowing felons convicted of a violent crime to own guns or not allowing people under the age of 18 to own handguns).

Got a gun? Don't know how to use it? Shot yourself and/or someone else? Then we'll deal with that problem when it happens rather than by trying to legislate everyone into safety.

[Don Coyote]

The beauty of that is there would most likely be a lot less retards, because they would have shot themselves.

[AFK]

I'm not sure your average citizen really needs to own any kind of heavy or auto/semi-auto weaponry.  I'm perfectly fine myself with bans on assault weapons, weaponry that goes above and beyond defending yourself and are designed to inflict harm on multiple targets and in quick fashion.  But I'm not too hot and bothered by it as it seems humans are pretty good at finding a way to kill someone they want to kill whether they have a gun or not. 

That said, my concern with firearms will deal mostly with children.  That is, guns in the homes where children live.  I'm not terribly keen on what kind of laws or policies are in place for gun owners and the children in their homes, but I think there should be some kind of mandate for anyone purchasing a gun, who had kids, to receive some kind of education on proper gun storage.  Maybe just have a quick 30 minute session on site and it's part of the process to buy a gun.  We educate drivers on how to be safe to keep themselves from harming themselves and children and I think that should be a requirement of gun ownership as well. 

[Don Coyote]

Well, I do agree that the common citizenry have no cause to actually posses military grade automatic rifles, but semi-autos? What about double action revolvers?

[AFK]

I dunno man, I'm not a gun expert.  I don't need a gun to protect my home, I have my wife.  Good luck to anyone who decides to test her.   

[Adios]

Personally I think fully automatic weapons are a blast to shoot. Semi-auto military style weapons are also a lot of fun. Expensive as hell, but a lot of fun.

[Kai]

I like traditional archery, bolo and atalatl.