What is creative disorder?

[Cosine 5]

I tried searching for a thread on this but couldn't find any. If one exists, I'd appreciate being kindly directed to it 

Either way, I wanted to throw some of my own thoughts out here to see how mangled they'll be when I come back tomorrow:
Order = that which arranges things already extant, builds things from parts, groups things, forms things, does not like luck and chance
Disorder = luck and chance, probability, randomness, screw the grouping and lining things up and arranging neatly, can build things from parts but more importantly can make things that don't exist come into existence and vice versa(envision particles blinking into existence and nonexistence at the quantum level, all based on probabilities)
Creative = bringing things together to create something new from parts (emergence, as an example?) or making things exist
Destructive = breaking things apart, breaking bonds between things, making things not exist anymore

I tried coming up with examples:
Creative order = the human body is amazingly complex and structured, and is basically extremely ordered cells. Each cell is an individual life in itself, but it is the order that allows them to create an extra, larger life, the I of the entire body (the soul or whatever that thinks these thoughts and directs my body to type them)
Destructive order = grouping people based on the color of their skin (breaks international bonds, causes conflict); also, government sometimes (most of the time)
Destructive disorder = mobs, anarchical violence.

What is creative disorder? Examples? That's where I got stuck.
Presumably there is something drastically wrong with the fundamentals of this theory, which is why I'm getting stuck, so...
... help me please?

[Adios]

Creative Disorder = extremely well planned assault to fuck shit up.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Creative Disorder:

Brainstorming

Mucking around with a new toy/software program/thingamajig until you find a way to do something cool with it

and some other stuff

[Cosine 5]

So basically just doing random things until something cool happens?

Another part of my theory was that the Universe was a cool thing that happened as a result of creative disorder - in other words, creative disorder is God (or goddess, or Eris). Please refute?

[Telarus]

Imposition of Disorder = Escalation of Order

so

Imposition of Creative Disorder = Escalation of Creative Order (I think)

[Phox]

So basically just doing random things until something cool happens?

Another part of my theory was that the Universe was a cool thing that happened as a result of creative disorder - in other words, creative disorder is God (or goddess, or Eris). Please refute?

Hiya, guy. I try to think of it this way. To an extent, its a matter of goals. When you create order, you also create disorder. Take a standard deck of playing cards. You have 52 cards scattered about on a table. Disorderly, right? So, you pick them up as they lie, face up, face down, 5 of hearts next to the deuce of clubs, etc. You ordered them, but into another form of disorder. Then you arrange them by suit, but you still got the four next to the queen, and so on. Disorder within order.But that's enough about order.

Next, you throw the cards into the air and scatter them again. Disorder! BUT.... your nicely arranged cards WILL fall into some nicely arranged patterns, and there will be a measure of order in them, that could only have been created by the disorder of scattering them. Order within, and dependent upon, disorder. The recognition of disorder as a creative force.

Perhaps not the best explanation. But that's one way of thinking of it.

Or not.

To address Creative Disorder as Goddess: Yes.

The long explanation: Think of all the infinite of possibilities for the configuration of the universe. Why this one? More locally, why are people physically made the way they are? Is it because its the best configuration? To be truly best, wouldn't we have thicker hides, wings, prehensile tails, claws, venom sacs, marsupii, dolphin brains, ultraviolet vision, sonar ears, multiple limbs, and countless other useful things we don't? How I would so love to have a spinneret and an ink gland! Creative Disorder. We get opposable thumbs. Bats get sonar. We get the ability to stand upright. Dogs get four legs. Why? Why not?

Or not.

This is what I think on the matter at the moment, at least. 

[Cainad (dec.)]

So basically just doing random things until something cool happens?

I guess you could say that, but it wouldn't jibe well with what Charley Brown mentioned, which I think also qualifies as Creative Disorder. A random or extremely unusual event that causes a great big upset leading to new ideas or new stuff (as opposed to a random upset that leaves a gaping crater behind).

Doktor Alphapance (formerly LMNO) has a New and Improved chart of Order, Disorder, Destruction, and Creation somewhere. He should totally dig it up and post ITT.

Another part of my theory was that the Universe was a cool thing that happened as a result of creative disorder - in other words, creative disorder is God (or goddess, or Eris). Please refute?

Eris, in typical Discordian terms, is referred to as Chaos, which is not the same as Disorder. Chaos comprises all possible things, and within this Chaos we, as humans, see the illusions of Order and Disorder.

You could say that the creation of the universe was an act of creative disorder, but that would be giving in to the illusion. The universe contains everything that we could perceive as Order, Disorder, Destruction, and Creation, because it is Chaos.

Look at something one way, it is Ordered; from another perspective, it is Disordered (a ceremonial ritual practiced and understood in one culture looks to an outsider as though everyone's lost their marbles). Something is Creative in some sense, Destructive in another sense (a political revolution, for example). The fact that how we see these things depends on perspective is the clue that they are illusions.




P.S. When I was typing this I accidentally left out the space between the words "but" and "that", thus creating "butthat". I thought everyone should know.

[Phox]

P.S. When I was typing this I accidentally left out the space between the words "but" and "that", thus creating "butthat". I thought everyone should know.

I tried to put a hat on my butt once. Didn't work out so well, as you might have thought.

In all seriousness, you bring up a good point that I intentionally left out. Eris is Chaos,  and in perfect chaos, everything exists, in a sense.  Even butthats. But I think that's a different discussion, isn't it?

[Cramulus]

in brief, creative refers to bringing something new into the world
disorder refers to something outside of an established pattern


Creative Disorder...

when you create something, you get to make a lot of choices about it

you build based on rules you've learned
trying to operationalize an idea you have

If you stick to the rules, that's a form of creative order
If your creation comes from the betrayal of the rules, that's creative disorder


So if you spend years studying art (or anything, really)
you'll have a pretty good idea of "how it works". But if you want to create something new, you have to go into uncharted territory



most humor is a form of creative disorder, since it relies on surprise, a betrayal of expectations.
and most art that's worth anything also involves a degree of creative disorder

[Cosine 5]

Thanks Cram! I get it now...
I think.

Trying to apply what you said to destruction, I get something like this:
You can destroy based on rules you've learned (about destroying things?),
which would be destructive order?
Or you can destroy in a way that betrays the rules of destroying things,
which would be destructive disorder?

According to your thoughts, it's not really order and disorder, but rather the Expected and the Unexpected...
Although it's true that order sets patterns for even the future, while disorder is unpredictable.

[Phox]

I mildly disagree with Cram's sentiment. Rather, I think it is oversimplified. Maybe that's just me.

I get the feeling that this is going to be an interesting discussion, though.

[Cosine 5]

I mildly disagree with Cram's sentiment. Rather, I think it is oversimplified. Maybe that's just me.

please elaborate?
It's simple, although the problem I'm finding with it is how it doesn't address destruction...
well, not when I tried to figure it out on my own anyway.

Cram?

[Phox]

in brief, creative refers to bringing something new into the world
disorder refers to something outside of an established pattern


Creative Disorder...

when you create something, you get to make a lot of choices about it

you build based on rules you've learned
trying to operationalize an idea you have

If you stick to the rules, that's a form of creative order
If your creation comes from the betrayal of the rules, that's creative disorder


So if you spend years studying art (or anything, really)
you'll have a pretty good idea of "how it works". But if you want to create something new, you have to go into uncharted territory



most humor is a form of creative disorder, since it relies on surprise, a betrayal of expectations.
and most art that's worth anything also involves a degree of creative disorder

Well, for starters, to create something new, you have to go outside the bounds of what is established, unless you decide to expand the rules within which you are working. Look at the history of art, since it's been brought up already. It can really be seen in the microcosm of Pablo Picasso. He didn't go from realism to surrealism overnight. It was a gradual transition that occurred one painting at a time. Yet, I would argue that this is still creative disorder. You can create something within an established order that is not of itself orderly. Disorder within order, as I said. It can be both creative and destructive. If you disrupt a system of order with too much disorder, it becomes destructive. Likewise if you impose too much order unto a system of disorder, it is destructive.

I'll give this more thought, though, and see what I come up with.

[Cosine 5]

Are you saying that destruction happens whenever things get out of balance?

(I disagree, but kind of have to leave now, so shall elaborate on that later this week. I need to think some more too.)

[Phox]

Are you saying that destruction happens whenever things get out of balance?

(I disagree, but kind of have to leave now, so shall elaborate on that later this week. I need to think some more too.)

Yes and no. That was just an example of how one can go from creative to destructive. Perhaps that didn't read as well as I thought it would, and it was non-sequitur. As far as balance, I believe that destructive order and disorder are an upset balance, but then again, I suppose there could be creative forces that weren't "balanced" per se, though I'm not quite sure what that means.