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I liked how they introduced her, like "her mother died in an insane asylum thinking she was Queen Victoria" and my thought was, I like where I think this is going. I was not disappointed.

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Government now has right to track you using GPS

Started by Adios, August 25, 2010, 06:12:24 PM

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bds

Isn't it fiendishly difficult to categorise classes broadly, anyway? On an individual level I guess it would be pretty easy, but I would've thought there are too many variables for a universal system?

The Johnny


I perceived some dead-ends earlier in the conversation over a definition of "poor".

So this got me thinking about what would make a good criterion for class, say: low, middle, high... on what little i know of statistics and correlation, the percentage of something being "significant" is 66.6% (2/3).

So i ran with that idea, looked up income and promptly did what i did.

In other words, i came up with an arbitrary definition; this categories seem good to me (in terms of wealth), which isnt getting into more complex definitions like taking into account if a class is f.e. "working" or not which i think is beyond my ability.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

bds

Also, statistics have been known for their terrible lies.

BabylonHoruv

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 26, 2010, 11:30:58 AM

Middle class would be an income between $17,499-35,000... (33.3%ish-70%ish)

Of course that high class would mean from $35,000 to the billions that the top 6% own and puts everyone to shame...

35k is not considered upper class in the US by any means.  That's middle class.  You have to be making 6 figures (or close to it) to be upper class.
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

BabylonHoruv

Quote from: Cain on August 26, 2010, 12:00:34 PM
Yeah, living costs in America are cheaper, but not that much cheaper.  £22k is about subsistence wage in London, and starting pay for young professionals or graduates elsewhere.  Taking into account the cost of housing or renting, food, taxes and other basics (which Americans would know better than us) would give us a good idea of how much of that money is actually potentially saved/spent on luxury goods, which would be a better indicator of income and class.

Or we could just do the Marxist thing and point out probably 90%+ of people in America don't own any means of production and so are working class by definition.  Which is a lot simpler, but also causes a lot more other problems.

US still has a pretty sizable petite Bourgoisie if you are using Marxist definitions.  It depends on how you define means of production (and ownership, factoring in stocks and whatnot can make this confusing) but I'd say it's definitely more than 10%  most are very petite though and plenty of them are in the lower part of middle class.
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

AFK

Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 26, 2010, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 26, 2010, 11:30:58 AM

Middle class would be an income between $17,499-35,000... (33.3%ish-70%ish)

Of course that high class would mean from $35,000 to the billions that the top 6% own and puts everyone to shame...

35k is not considered upper class in the US by any means.  That's middle class.  You have to be making 6 figures (or close to it) to be upper class.

Yeah, I certainly don't feel very upper class. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Adios

Seriously.....rich in this thread is defined by gated communities, motion detectors, security systems......

Jenne

Keep in mind, also, that the same income in one state will get you further than living in another.  $50K in California will get you middle-to-lower middle class living.  In other words, you're still paycheck to paycheck *without* servicing debt.  You're in a big sinkhole financially if you're servicing debt, of any kind, and most are.  You're probably also without health care if you have children.  If your employer carries it, you're probably paying for it, but your spouse and kids are on their own (and you probably won't qualify for Healthy Families unless the spouse is pregnant).

However, that same $50K in say, Missouri, would get you a much better state of living, and you'd be able to handle debts and larger expenses more easily.

There's a lot of "equalizing" formulas out there, my husband knows a few of them so I will ask him where they are found.  He has to do cost analysis a lot in his job as he writes grants for his clinic.

The Johnny

Quote from: Jenne on August 26, 2010, 02:42:06 PM
Keep in mind, also, that the same income in one state will get you further than living in another.  $50K in California will get you middle-to-lower middle class living.  In other words, you're still paycheck to paycheck *without* servicing debt.  You're in a big sinkhole financially if you're servicing debt, of any kind, and most are.  You're probably also without health care if you have children.  If your employer carries it, you're probably paying for it, but your spouse and kids are on their own (and you probably won't qualify for Healthy Families unless the spouse is pregnant).

However, that same $50K in say, Missouri, would get you a much better state of living, and you'd be able to handle debts and larger expenses more easily.

There's a lot of "equalizing" formulas out there, my husband knows a few of them so I will ask him where they are found.  He has to do cost analysis a lot in his job as he writes grants for his clinic.

I think thats a great perspective and contribution.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

LMNO

So, a GPS device needs to receive transmitter information, and then re-broadcast it, like a cellphone or some sort of wireless/wifi gadget, yes?

There must be some sort of scanner that can identify if a wireless device is broadcasting somewhere in the vicinity.  The GPS device itself couldn't be too fancy, simpley due to cost considerations, so there may be an easy way to figure out if you've been tagged.


Hell, there's probably even an app for that.

Jenne

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 26, 2010, 03:01:15 PM



I think thats a great perspective and contribution.

Thanks!  In the end, I'm becoming a public welfare and assistance student since I do so much research and whatnot, so coupled with the role my husband plays in the community, I end up with a lot of info.  And I'm sick in the head enough to do this on my "off time."

Jenne

Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 26, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
So, a GPS device needs to receive transmitter information, and then re-broadcast it, like a cellphone or some sort of wireless/wifi gadget, yes?

There must be some sort of scanner that can identify if a wireless device is broadcasting somewhere in the vicinity.  The GPS device itself couldn't be too fancy, simpley due to cost considerations, so there may be an easy way to figure out if you've been tagged.


Hell, there's probably even an app for that.

...Dude where's my car?  (and yeah, there's an app for that)

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 26, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
So, a GPS device needs to receive transmitter information, and then re-broadcast it, like a cellphone or some sort of wireless/wifi gadget, yes?

There must be some sort of scanner that can identify if a wireless device is broadcasting somewhere in the vicinity.  The GPS device itself couldn't be too fancy, simpley due to cost considerations, so there may be an easy way to figure out if you've been tagged.


Hell, there's probably even an app for that.


http://www.spyassociates.com/spy-hawk-pro-rf-gps-bug-detector-phone-tap-security-p-1962.html?affiliate_banner_id=1&ref=254

http://www.gpsjammers.net/

Oh Internets, Thou Provideth Everything
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Jenne

That spy stuff you can get to spy on your wife/nanny/etc.--most of it DID originate in military ops/government spy labs (or by contract), right?  That's what I've always heard, anyway.

It would stand to reason, the way engineers and inventors are contracted...

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Jenne on August 26, 2010, 03:32:12 PM
That spy stuff you can get to spy on your wife/nanny/etc.--most of it DID originate in military ops/government spy labs (or by contract), right?  That's what I've always heard, anyway.

It would stand to reason, the way engineers and inventors are contracted...

Its difficult to tell sometimes. I think many of the companies got their start that way... but at this point the home market for 'spying' is pretty huge according to some of the people I've met in the security business. Hell, I know one guy that has a company which does fingerprint readers/scanners and just recently got his first government contract a good 10 years after starting the business...

(Fingerprint reader tied to a switch tied to the fuel pump = no more stolen HumVees in Iraq. So the theory goes).
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson