Author Topic: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes  (Read 1492 times)

LMNO

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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 05:08:59 pm »
A or not-A is a true dichotomy off the top of my head.  Of course, that only applies to the subset of problems where Logic actually applies.  IE, no problems that actually matter outside of science & engineering.

Which is covered in the "game rule" provision as stated above.

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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011, 05:11:28 pm »
Its actually one of the game rules, rather than something you'd generate with game rules.  But uh.. yeah I guess the point is the same.
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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2011, 02:14:05 pm »
Does a true dichotomy exist?

I've seen false dichotomy tossed in as a fallacy on several arguements.  It appears that there may be no such animal, and any dichotomy, duality, black or white situation outside computers or electrical circuits is, in fact, a lie.

If you have any clarification on this, please enlighten.

As a Taoist, I'm totally biased and unfit to answer this question.  :lulz:

I once had a talk with a co worker about Tao.  It nearly became a fist fight.  I'm inclined to say Tao is superior.
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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011, 05:38:46 pm »
All I can add is that even in digital computer circuits, the dichotomy of one/zero is also forced upon the system, so in a sense not even there it's a true one. Most chips use 0V for False and 5V for True, but as soon as you start building complex logic gates with transistors using that model, you're going to find all sorts of voltages in between, especially when a signal is just changing from a one to a zero or vice-versa.

That's why a CPU has a "clock" signal in it, which is a square wave signal switching between 0 and 1 at the "clock frequency" (that's your 1.6GHz), and the rules of the low-level computer game (implemented in the circuitry) say that the CPU is only allowed to "use" a signal on a line, or propagate it in some way, when the clock signal is on an up- or a down-ramp (when it switches). That way, all the transistors and such can "settle" on their target value (or very near), and consistency is preserved, only 0V and 5V, no shades of gray in between.

Back in the old days, it was popular to "overclock" your CPU, make it run faster (probably still happens, but today's bottlenecks are not always the CPU speed), which amounted simply to making this clock signal run at a higher frequency, allowing the CPU to propagate more values per second, and thus more calculations. The danger of this was that possibly the transistors hadn't yet settled on their 0V or 5V values but somewhere in between, and if you'd feed a 2V = "0.4 True / 0.6 False" value into a logic gate, you didn't get Maybe Logic, unfortunately, instead you'd get undefined behaviour and the computer would hang.

To get back to the topic, the point is, even in those cold binary machines, the 0/1 dichotomy is merely a veil drawn over the many shades that seem to be ever-present in reality.
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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2011, 05:58:13 pm »
I like this topic.
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Re: ATTN: Philosphy Assholes
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2011, 06:44:32 pm »
All I can add is that even in digital computer circuits, the dichotomy of one/zero is also forced upon the system, so in a sense not even there it's a true one. Most chips use 0V for False and 5V for True, but as soon as you start building complex logic gates with transistors using that model, you're going to find all sorts of voltages in between, especially when a signal is just changing from a one to a zero or vice-versa.

That's why a CPU has a "clock" signal in it, which is a square wave signal switching between 0 and 1 at the "clock frequency" (that's your 1.6GHz), and the rules of the low-level computer game (implemented in the circuitry) say that the CPU is only allowed to "use" a signal on a line, or propagate it in some way, when the clock signal is on an up- or a down-ramp (when it switches). That way, all the transistors and such can "settle" on their target value (or very near), and consistency is preserved, only 0V and 5V, no shades of gray in between.

Back in the old days, it was popular to "overclock" your CPU, make it run faster (probably still happens, but today's bottlenecks are not always the CPU speed), which amounted simply to making this clock signal run at a higher frequency, allowing the CPU to propagate more values per second, and thus more calculations. The danger of this was that possibly the transistors hadn't yet settled on their 0V or 5V values but somewhere in between, and if you'd feed a 2V = "0.4 True / 0.6 False" value into a logic gate, you didn't get Maybe Logic, unfortunately, instead you'd get undefined behaviour and the computer would hang.

To get back to the topic, the point is, even in those cold binary machines, the 0/1 dichotomy is merely a veil drawn over the many shades that seem to be ever-present in reality.

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