REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[AFK]

The Mayo Clinic source doesn't say what you want it to say. It says cannabis may be "psychologically addicting," which is different from being addictive in the sense we say heroin or cocaine is addictive. Anything is psychologically addicting if you like it enough. And the "use and dependence" section simply lists some of the temporary side-effects of use, not any long-term effects, not to mention it conflates "use" with "abuse" as if they were one and the same, which is an old, tired drug warrior tactic.

Psychological addictions can be very powerful and cause very real harm to an individual.  And as someone who works in the field, and who's worked with people who've been addicted to marijuana, I can attest to that.  Addiction is addiction.  If you are using a substance to an extent, that you cannot quit it because of the withdrawal symptoms, that is addiction.  Word games and pedantry don't change that fact. 

The second link comes across as a group of professional nannies who make their money off treating addiction as wanting to protect their bread and butter rather than appealing to science. It also reinforces the idea that people shouldn't have access to medicine that the government hasn't given them permission to use, which is the kind of authoritarian bullshit that's destroyed this country. It's one thing to say drug companies can't market medicine without its approval. It's quite another to say people should be legally prevented from having access to cannabis they grow in their own yards (even if the voters approve it).

Umm, the ASAM criteria ARE based on science.  It is an evidence-based model that sets the standards for addiction treatment in the United States.  And that is precisely why they are against recognizing marijuana as a medicine in the same way other medicines are recognized.  Because of patient safety.  When the science definitively makes a case that leads to FDA approval, then ASAM will go along with it.  But patient safety is a vital part of their "bread and butter" and it would go against their code of ethics to condone it. 

The third link is from the feds, which... I'm new here, so I'm just going to assume you're trolling and this is an application of Poe's Law based on that. Not to mention it lists symptoms of "abuse" that I can reproduce from going without chocolate for a week...

Yes, you are new, and that was a rather predictable response.  You will notice that in the quote I included the citation to the actual study linked to the quote.  So the "its the feds" copout doesn't quite hold up. 

[East Coast Hustle]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-addiction/DS00183/DSECTION=symptoms

http://www.jointogether.org/blog/posts/2011/addiction-doctors-say-medical.html

ASAM argues that marijuana is problematic because it is addictive

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/pdf/Marijuana.pdf

Long-term marijuana users who are trying to stop using the drug report symptoms such as irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which make it difficult to quit.21
21 Budney AJ, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR, Thostenson JD, Bursac Z. Comparison of cannabis and tobacco withdrawal:
Severity and contribution to relapse. J Subst Abuse Treat 35(4):362–368, 2008.

For starters.

In all fairness, some would argue that those symptoms are just a return to the way things were before that individual started smoking pot.

But seriously, those strike me as symptoms that would be induced by psychological craving rather than actual physical addiction. Ignore Laughing Jude being a prick ITT if you can, I'm actually really interested in this specific question.

[Luna]

For what little it's worth, I lived with someone who quit smoking tobacco, cold.  Just decided, "done," and went from a pack a day to zero.  Hell to live with for a couple weeks, but, once he decided he was done, he didn't light another for YEARS.  He never could quit pot for more than a week at a time.

[AFK]

Responding to ECH:  Yes, but not all psychological addictions are created equal.  For example, gambling addiction is another area I have some background in.  Generally, the only physical withdrawal symptoms a pathological gambler will have are restlessness and irritability.  Of course those symptoms become nothing compared to the issues with becoming a social and familial outcast and obliterating your bank account.  For someone who is highly addicted to marijuana, there will be more physical manifestations of withdrawal compared to other psychological addictions.  

[El Sjaako]

Psychological addictions can be very powerful and cause very real harm to an individual.  And as someone who works in the field, and who's worked with people who've been addicted to marijuana, I can attest to that.  Addiction is addiction.  If you are using a substance to an extent, that you cannot quit it because of the withdrawal symptoms, that is addiction.  Word games and pedantry don't change that fact. 

Funny thing, words games are also psychologically addictive. You can get addicted to crosswords and scrabble!

Anything that is enjoyable is going to be psychologically addictive. I know I have a way harder time quitting reddit for a week than quitting weed for a week (and I wouldn't call myself a light user).

[AFK]

But, like anything, there is a spectrum when we talk about psychological addictions.  You can't just say "lawl, psychological addiction" and pretend all psychological addictions are equal.  They are not. 

[East Coast Hustle]

Responding to ECH:  Yes, but not all psychological addictions are created equal.  For example, gambling addiction is another area I have some background in.  Generally, the only physical withdrawal symptoms a pathological gambler will have are restlessness and irritability.  Of course those symptoms become nothing compared to the issues with becoming a social and familial outcast and obliterating your bank account.  For someone who is highly addicted to marijuana, there will be more physical manifestations of withdrawal compared to other psychological addictions.  

I see. Thanks for clarifying, Rev!

[Bruno]

In my experience, weed is about as addictive an Mountain Dew.*











I have a Mountain Dew problem.

[Luna]

In my experience, weed is about as addictive an Mountain Dew.*











I have a Mountain Dew problem.

I found out the hard way what happens when you go from downing a 2-Liter bottle of Coke a night to zero suddenly.  Went camping, was drinking stuff other than anything with caffeine.  The headaches made me, um, a LITTLE cranky...

[Vaud]

RWHN: Thanks for the links, but I'm still not convinced that it is anything beyond psychological; someone said Mountain Dew, and I agree.  I've often compared my "addiction" with my former addiction to coffee.  I still love coffee, and honestly, I miss drinking it the way I used to, but it started making me ill, so that made it easy to cut back drastically.  I think it's important to remember that marijuana does affect different people differently, such as the numerous reports I've been given from rl folks that it actually increases anxiety (the opposite effect from what it has on me).  I think, like many things, like coffee, marijuana can be helpful and worth consuming for many people, but there must be some sense of balance, and that threshold too, is different for every case.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

RWHN: Thanks for the links, but I'm still not convinced that it is anything beyond psychological; someone said Mountain Dew, and I agree.  I've often compared my "addiction" with my former addiction to coffee.  I still love coffee, and honestly, I miss drinking it the way I used to, but it started making me ill, so that made it easy to cut back drastically.  I think it's important to remember that marijuana does affect different people differently, such as the numerous reports I've been given from rl folks that it actually increases anxiety (the opposite effect from what it has on me).  I think, like many things, like coffee, marijuana can be helpful and worth consuming for many people, but there must be some sense of balance, and that threshold too, is different for every case.

On the other hand, I've seen you smoke.  You smoke a rather large quantity, far more than what I'd call "casual use".  That doesn't imply "addiction", but it does raise a flag or two.

[Vaud]

On the other hand, I've seen you smoke.  You smoke a rather large quantity, far more than what I'd call "casual use".  That doesn't imply "addiction", but it does raise a flag or two.

Oh, I don't smoke like that anymore!  I really didn't smoke like that for very long.  That little period sort of feels like it was my last hurrah with drugs and booze.  I still drink and smoke, but not like that.  I touch Jameson or Tullamure Dew maybe once or twice a year now.  A quarter lasts me up to two weeks, and I really don't have much to do with anything "hard" anymore.  I can't handle uppers at all anymore... two cups of coffee in a day is already a bit too much.

[LMNO]

RWHN: Thanks for the links, but I'm still not convinced that it is anything beyond psychological.

Are you reading ANYTHING he's typing in this thread, or just sticking to your script come hell or high water?

[East Coast Hustle]

RWHN: Thanks for the links, but I'm still not convinced that it is anything beyond psychological; someone said Mountain Dew, and I agree.  I've often compared my "addiction" with my former addiction to coffee.  I still love coffee, and honestly, I miss drinking it the way I used to, but it started making me ill, so that made it easy to cut back drastically.  I think it's important to remember that marijuana does affect different people differently, such as the numerous reports I've been given from rl folks that it actually increases anxiety (the opposite effect from what it has on me).  I think, like many things, like coffee, marijuana can be helpful and worth consuming for many people, but there must be some sense of balance, and that threshold too, is different for every case.

On the other hand, I've seen you smoke.  You smoke a rather large quantity, far more than what I'd call "casual use".  That doesn't imply "addiction", but it does raise a flag or two.

Some people just have to try alot harder than others to reach the point that most people get to with just minor casual use.

For example, I can drink a rugby team under the table, and still be just lightly buzzed. Of course, I decided a long time ago that this meant I should just be satisfied with "lightly buzzed", but Vaud does have a point about different people having different reactions to things.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Some people just have to try alot harder than others to reach the point that most people get to with just minor casual use.

Point.  One hit of Toledo window box garbage, and I'm watching a whole different TV show for a few hours.