REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[AFK]

Sigh. I'm not playing a game. I am thinking of all the destroyed families, imprisoned people, and lost college educations that are the direct result of criminalization.

All of the imprisoned people?  How many non-violent, non-trafficking adults are in prison for marijuana?  How many?  I would also like to point out a little thing called personal responsibility.  Unless someone has lived under a rock, they know that there are penalties associated with marijuana.  Ultimately, a person made a choice, knowing full well what the penalties would be, whether they agreed with them or not.  

Absolutely, they should campaign against those laws if they think they are wrong.  But I would have to question the priorities of someone who chose to knowingly risk their college opportunities over pot.  

Working to solve the community and social problems that result in drug abuse is a good thing. Criminalization of marijuana, though, is a corporate industry that hurts communities.

I disagree.  Community norms are an important protective factor when it comes to substance abuse according to the work of Hawkins and Catalano.  When communities have rules around substances that are enforced, there tends to be lower substance abuse.  

[AFK]

Absolutely. We spend so much money on incarcerating people that didn't do anything but get high. We're letting murderers and rapists out of jail because our prisons are too overcrowded to keep the druggies behind bars.

[Freeky]

Absolutely. We spend so much money on incarcerating people that didn't do anything but get high. We're letting murderers and rapists out of jail because our prisons are too overcrowded to keep the druggies behind bars.

I'ma have to agree with RWHN on this one.  plenty of rapists and murderers get away, but they get away for different reasons, not because of all the pot heads in jail.

[AFK]

Well, not only that, but when you take out the violent offenders and those who are in for trafficking, you really don't have that many people (comparatively) in prison for simple marijuana possession.  It's one of those things I hear a lot from some in the legalization community that bugs me.  It's like the prisons are bursting at the seams with potheads.  Reality just doesn't match up with that scenario. 

[Phox]

I love how we've managed to build a 36-page thread around everybody willfully missing the point as intently as possible.

^
Just sayin'.

[Cinderflame KSC]

Absolutely. We spend so much money on incarcerating people that didn't do anything but get high. We're letting murderers and rapists out of jail because our prisons are too overcrowded to keep the druggies behind bars.

I'ma have to agree with RWHN on this one.  plenty of rapists and murderers get away, but they get away for different reasons, not because of all the pot heads in jail.

I did not mean to imply causation, but merely correlation there.

My point is that the jails are overcrowded, in California alone all 33 of their prisons are at 200% capacity, and are facing mandatory releases. http://www.10news.com/news/22333648/detail.html On the other side of the coin, 60% of federal prisoners are drug related offenses, only 3% of those are violent. http://www.hr95.org/hr95faces.html

[Cinderflame KSC]

And to avoid a biased source, I went directly to the Bureau of Prisons website at http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp

Most recent stats:

Drug Offenses:   100,772   (51.2 %)
Weapons, Explosives, Arson:   29,960   (15.2 %)
Immigration:   22,140   (11.2 %)
Robbery:   8,471   (4.3 %)
Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses:   6,894   (3.5 %)
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery:   10,089   (5.1 %)
Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses:   5,424   (2.8 %)
Miscellaneous:   1,860   (0.9 %)
Sex Offenses:   9,184   (4.7 %)
Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement:   874   (0.4 %)
Courts or Corrections:   613   (0.3 %)
Continuing Criminal Enterprise:   513   (0.3 %)
National Security:   98   (0.0 %)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Don't forget the ones who don't go to prison, but have a felony possession charge on their record that permanently impacts their ability to go to college or provide for their families... effectively making the poverty problem worse, which ties into drug abuse.

That system hurts people. It's antisocial.

[BabylonHoruv]

How about the costs of keeping it illegal, RWHN? I keep bringing this issue up but you haven't even acknowledged it.

The war on pot does a lot more harm than the facile argument that it merely inhibits adults from smoking it, as you have implied.

What are the primary costs of marijuana prohibition, in your mind?

That questions, IMO, makes an incorrect assumption.  That legal marijuana is going to be the death-knell of drug cartels.  It would not be their death knell.  Many of these cartels also deal in the illegal and pirate prescription drug trade.  Many also deal with other, harder drugs.  Some of the more sophisticated outlets would undoubtedly switch to a new model where they develop and sell product that outdoes the legal product being regulated by the U.S. Government. 

Certainly, there is alway room for the enforcement of our drug laws to be carried out in smarter and more judicious manners.  I won't argue that. 

This was true of organized crime during alcohol prohibition as well, and they didnt' die immediately after legalization, but it definitely struck them a hard blow and cost them a lot of influence.

[Elder Iptuous]

How about the costs of keeping it illegal, RWHN? I keep bringing this issue up but you haven't even acknowledged it.

The war on pot does a lot more harm than the facile argument that it merely inhibits adults from smoking it, as you have implied.

What are the primary costs of marijuana prohibition, in your mind?

That questions, IMO, makes an incorrect assumption.  That legal marijuana is going to be the death-knell of drug cartels.  It would not be their death knell.  Many of these cartels also deal in the illegal and pirate prescription drug trade.  Many also deal with other, harder drugs.  Some of the more sophisticated outlets would undoubtedly switch to a new model where they develop and sell product that outdoes the legal product being regulated by the U.S. Government. 

Certainly, there is alway room for the enforcement of our drug laws to be carried out in smarter and more judicious manners.  I won't argue that. 

This was true of organized crime during alcohol prohibition as well, and they didnt' die immediately after legalization, but it definitely struck them a hard blow and cost them a lot of influence.

Yes; and while it certainly won't put a stop to any criminals, it will certainly stop to some number of crimes.  And if we can prevent even one innocent person or child from a crime that didn't have to be.... shouldn't we do that?

[AFK]

And to avoid a biased source, I went directly to the Bureau of Prisons website at http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp

Most recent stats:

Drug Offenses:   100,772   (51.2 %)
Weapons, Explosives, Arson:   29,960   (15.2 %)
Immigration:   22,140   (11.2 %)
Robbery:   8,471   (4.3 %)
Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses:   6,894   (3.5 %)
Extortion, Fraud, Bribery:   10,089   (5.1 %)
Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses:   5,424   (2.8 %)
Miscellaneous:   1,860   (0.9 %)
Sex Offenses:   9,184   (4.7 %)
Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement:   874   (0.4 %)
Courts or Corrections:   613   (0.3 %)
Continuing Criminal Enterprise:   513   (0.3 %)
National Security:   98   (0.0 %)

How many of that 100,000 are simple marijuana possession charges?  As opposed to trafficking, selling/furnishing to a minor, etc.? 

[AFK]

Don't forget the ones who don't go to prison, but have a felony possession charge on their record that permanently impacts their ability to go to college or provide for their families... effectively making the poverty problem worse, which ties into drug abuse.

That system hurts people. It's antisocial.

No one forces anyone to take up an activity that is known to be illegal. 

[AFK]

How about the costs of keeping it illegal, RWHN? I keep bringing this issue up but you haven't even acknowledged it.

The war on pot does a lot more harm than the facile argument that it merely inhibits adults from smoking it, as you have implied.

What are the primary costs of marijuana prohibition, in your mind?

That questions, IMO, makes an incorrect assumption.  That legal marijuana is going to be the death-knell of drug cartels.  It would not be their death knell.  Many of these cartels also deal in the illegal and pirate prescription drug trade.  Many also deal with other, harder drugs.  Some of the more sophisticated outlets would undoubtedly switch to a new model where they develop and sell product that outdoes the legal product being regulated by the U.S. Government. 

Certainly, there is alway room for the enforcement of our drug laws to be carried out in smarter and more judicious manners.  I won't argue that. 

This was true of organized crime during alcohol prohibition as well, and they didnt' die immediately after legalization, but it definitely struck them a hard blow and cost them a lot of influence.

Yes, but that was a completely different time.  They didn't have Rx counterfeiting to fall back on which is HUGE now.  These organizations are much more diversified today than they were 80 years ago. 

[Elder Iptuous]

i fully admit that organized crime will continue, even if we stop making criminals out of the nonviolent drug offenders.  there is no arguing that...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Don't forget the ones who don't go to prison, but have a felony possession charge on their record that permanently impacts their ability to go to college or provide for their families... effectively making the poverty problem worse, which ties into drug abuse.

That system hurts people. It's antisocial.

No one forces anyone to take up an activity that is known to be illegal. 

No, but that doesn't at all address the justness or wisdom of the law, or the factors of poverty, abuse and hopelessness that so heavily influence drug use. The fact that existing drug laws are disproportionately applied to people of color is also a real problem.

Sticking your head in the sand and saying "BUT THEY KNEW IT WAS ILLEGAL SO THEY DESERVE IT" is not productive.