REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[Salty]

God fucking dammit just let this thread full of fascist prohibitionist bullshit die, I'm tired of seeing it show up in my "new posts" feed.

1.  I like this thread. its full of perspective I would not have otherwise come across.

2. The word fascist in this context makes me shit my molars.

3. Please to note the numerous requests ITT to let this thread die. Note the page count.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, as much as we enjoy going at each other ITT, there's still an underlying respect between the people having the majority of the debate. Calling it "fascist prohibitionist bullshit" just shows your lack of nuance.

[AFK]

Really?

How many times have you bought dope on the street?

How many times have you bought it from a mid-level dealer?

How many times have you bought it right from the source?

How many times have you smuggled it across an international border?

What is the estimated dollar value of the largest deal you have ever been part of as either a buyer, seller, or middleman?

Say what you want, but if the answer to these questions is "zero" then you're missing a rather critical perspective on the reality of your field of interest.

Not really, especially given that I have the luxury of having that kind of information from the many, many drug dealers and buyers that have encountered the local, state, and federal law enforcement officials I've worked with.  So I rather think I'm likely to have a broader prespecive in that area compared to a single person who has had singular experience. 

[AFK]

I sometimes get the feeling that I might be the only person here who ACTUALLY has a fucking clue how the black market for drugs really works.

Your feeling would be inaccurate.  

Oh come on, RWHN. You are probably the least credible authority here on the reality of drug trading other than Trix. You mostly regurgitate Department Approved™ propaganda, most of which appears to have been written by Nancy Reagan.

Did you get this right out of the Dick Armey playbook?  When you can't debate someone on substance, just attack them with lazy, misinformed generalities.  I have to tell you that is a mighty crushing blow to my credibility!   

[Wyldkat]

I actually did want to know what RWHN would say about my question, but it either got ignored or missed.  If you ignored it, fine, but if you missed it I can bump it for you.  Thanks.

[East Coast Hustle]

Really?

How many times have you bought dope on the street?

How many times have you bought it from a mid-level dealer?

How many times have you bought it right from the source?

How many times have you smuggled it across an international border?

What is the estimated dollar value of the largest deal you have ever been part of as either a buyer, seller, or middleman?

Say what you want, but if the answer to these questions is "zero" then you're missing a rather critical perspective on the reality of your field of interest.

Not really, especially given that I have the luxury of having that kind of information from the many, many drug dealers and buyers that have encountered the local, state, and federal law enforcement officials I've worked with.  So I rather think I'm likely to have a broader prespecive in that area compared to a single person who has had singular experience. 

Are you friggin' serious?

I'm sure the 3rd-hand information you have from the dealers via the cops is 100% guaranteed no-bullshit accurate. Lord knows nobody I know has ever lied to a cop.

Your argument is akin to a sportswriter saying that since he knows a whole lot on paper about a whole lot of basketball players he could beat Kobe bryant in a game of one-on-one.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I sometimes get the feeling that I might be the only person here who ACTUALLY has a fucking clue how the black market for drugs really works.

Your feeling would be inaccurate.  

Oh come on, RWHN. You are probably the least credible authority here on the reality of drug trading other than Trix. You mostly regurgitate Department Approved™ propaganda, most of which appears to have been written by Nancy Reagan.

Did you get this right out of the Dick Armey playbook?  When you can't debate someone on substance, just attack them with lazy, misinformed generalities.  I have to tell you that is a mighty crushing blow to my credibility!   

I'm sorry, but that is exactly how I see you on this subject, and that's one of the reasons I try not to engage with you on it.

[AFK]

It only makes it obvious that you don't actually read anything I post with any kind of detail or attention.  I mean if you can't, you can't but do you really have to go with the lazy cop-out?

[AFK]

I'm sure the 3rd-hand information you have from the dealers via the cops is 100% guaranteed no-bullshit accurate. Lord knows nobody I know has ever lied to a cop.

It's like in any other area of law enforcement when you gather data and intel from criminals.  Obviously they will lie but there are also those who will sing for a deal.  Either way, whether you care to admit it or recognize it or not, the truth is that there is quite a bit of information on the drug trade that is amassed through the various operations and investigations. 

Besides, if you think the black market is the same black market you were in when you bought some drugs from some guy, how many years ago, you're kidding yourself.  It has evolved quite a bit since those times.  A prime example being as I explained before how the cartels have become heavily involved in the diversion of Prescription drugs as well as the counterfeit pharmaceuticals.  While they continue to push and try to breach the Northern New England market with meth as they have done pretty much throughout the rest of the country. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It only makes it obvious that you don't actually read anything I post with any kind of detail or attention.  I mean if you can't, you can't but do you really have to go with the lazy cop-out?

Actually, I do. Or at least I did in the beginning... I don't waste my time with religion anymore.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm sure the 3rd-hand information you have from the dealers via the cops is 100% guaranteed no-bullshit accurate. Lord knows nobody I know has ever lied to a cop.

It's like in any other area of law enforcement when you gather data and intel from criminals.  Obviously they will lie but there are also those who will sing for a deal.  Either way, whether you care to admit it or recognize it or not, the truth is that there is quite a bit of information on the drug trade that is amassed through the various operations and investigations. 

Besides, if you think the black market is the same black market you were in when you bought some drugs from some guy, how many years ago, you're kidding yourself.  It has evolved quite a bit since those times.  A prime example being as I explained before how the cartels have become heavily involved in the diversion of Prescription drugs as well as the counterfeit pharmaceuticals.  While they continue to push and try to breach the Northern New England market with meth as they have done pretty much throughout the rest of the country. 

"that time I bought some drugs from some guy"

Dude, I come from a line of smugglers that goes back to the Revolutionary War (and yes, I'm proud of that). Have you ever read the book "Reefer Men"? It's mostly about my dad and his buddies. If you haven't you really should as it's an excellent read and quite informative regardless of your perspective on the subject matter.

Point is, I've been involved in the black market for most of my life and at almost every level from selling bags at the high school bus stop before school to growing hundreds of pounds hydroponically in a warehouse to being the distributor for most of the lab-quality crystal the Yak's started bringing into Seattle in the mid 90's to smuggling 30,000 E-bombs from the lab in Ensenada to the buyer in Anaheim.

Now, I don't go around claiming to have 100% of the available perspective on the drug trade. Why? Because I've never worked as a cop or a substance abuse counselor or anything like that. I'm missing the experience that would allow me to understand that aspect of things in intimate detail. That's why I value your input on the subject - you have that perspective and since I'm interested in knowing more about things than I do now, I want to learn from your perspective.

You, however, seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that you also lack the experience necessary to have 100% of the available perspective in this matter. As though reading about it on paper or hearing about it 3rd or 4th-hand from sources that lack credibility (both dealers and cops) can even come CLOSE to replacing that experience. I disagree with you about marijuana being illegal, but I couldn't agree more strongly about the need to keep kids from fucking around with shit that changes their brain chemistry until they're old enough to make that decision for themselves in a responsible fashion. And I feel that your unwillingness to remove your blinders and accept the actual reality of certain aspects of your field of interest probably hampers your effectiveness.

I know you think you know how it is out there, but you're somewhere between "not totally right" and "dead wrong" on that. The Game doesn't work the way you appear to want it to.

[Bruno]

So, is the whole "adulterated drugs" argument for or against legalization?

I can never remember. 

[AFK]

It only makes it obvious that you don't actually read anything I post with any kind of detail or attention.  I mean if you can't, you can't but do you really have to go with the lazy cop-out?

Actually, I do. Or at least I did in the beginning... I don't waste my time with religion anymore.

Another cop out.  I mean, if you think my arguments are that bad, misinformed, whatever, you should be able to easily take me to town.  I mean really, put up or shut up. 

[AFK]

So, is the whole "adulterated drugs" argument for or against legalization?

I can never remember. 

From my perspective it's neither.  Just an interesting aside. 

[AFK]

You, however, seem to be willfully ignoring the fact that you also lack the experience necessary to have 100% of the available perspective in this matter. As though reading about it on paper or hearing about it 3rd or 4th-hand from sources that lack credibility (both dealers and cops) can even come CLOSE to replacing that experience. I disagree with you about marijuana being illegal, but I couldn't agree more strongly about the need to keep kids from fucking around with shit that changes their brain chemistry until they're old enough to make that decision for themselves in a responsible fashion. And I feel that your unwillingness to remove your blinders and accept the actual reality of certain aspects of your field of interest probably hampers your effectiveness.

I know you think you know how it is out there, but you're somewhere between "not totally right" and "dead wrong" on that. The Game doesn't work the way you appear to want it to.

I'm sorry but I categorically reject the notion that someone must have been a drug dealer to be effective at substance abuse prevention.  When I lack information on a partiular angle, I seek it out.  Whether it is my contacts at the DEA or the State Office of Substance Abuse, interviewing people in jail, reading the latest peer-reviewed research, consulting with my mentors and learned professionals in the field, etc. etc., 

Pardon my brag, but I'm a pretty smart and intelligent fellow.  I have a Masters Degree in Public POlicy, I'm an NIH certified researcher, I have published research, I've created 5-year plans that have demonstrably reduced substance abuse, I have a pretty good name recognition and reputation in the state.  I'll put all that up as pretty ample evidence that I know what the fuck I am doing.  Experience can easily be supplimented with information, if you know how to research and know what you are doing.