The "evidence" of Ritual

[Adios]

Thanks Cram.

Also I think I have found the jumping off point.

The Olo Nhaju believes in a dual soul. The corporeal remains with the body until the final burial, while the "marrow of the soul", the essence, wanders incessantly, unable to enter the homeland of the dead until the completion of the ritual duties by the survivors. The soul lives marginally in two worlds. It belongs neither to the afterworld, nor can it resume its existence on earth. In this condition, it may seek revenge against its kin,

http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/pecorip/SCCCWEB/ETEXTS/DeathandDying_TEXT/Death%20Ritual.pdf

[Adios]

Not surprisingly I keep tripping over religion and superstition. It seems even pre-historic man had the need to believe that something came after this life.

My search is only at the beginning however, to see if there is any evidence.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Not surprisingly I keep tripping over religion and superstition. It seems even pre-historic man had the need to believe that something came after this life.

My search is only at the beginning however, to see if there is any evidence.

Makes sense especially back then. Your life was short, you were likely in decent to poor health the entire time, if you were a woman, you'd probably get pregnant 50% of the time you had sex, and half of those kids would die, and you would possibly die delivering one of them. What's the point of dealing with all of that if there isn't some hope for something else? Not say this is the whole story, but a lot of people say if there is no god there is no point to life and everything becomes meaningless and they would probably kill themselves.

If I found out for sure that there wasn't a god I would try to find a way to become immortal.

[Adios]

Not surprisingly I keep tripping over religion and superstition. It seems even pre-historic man had the need to believe that something came after this life.

My search is only at the beginning however, to see if there is any evidence.

Makes sense especially back then. Your life was short, you were likely in decent to poor health the entire time, if you were a woman, you'd probably get pregnant 50% of the time you had sex, and half of those kids would die, and you would possibly die delivering one of them. What's the point of dealing with all of that if there isn't some hope for something else? Not say this is the whole story, but a lot of people say if there is no god there is no point to life and everything becomes meaningless and they would probably kill themselves.

If I found out for sure that there wasn't a god I would try to find a way to become immortal.

This is exactly the wall I seem to be running to at every turn. Even the academics understandably approach the subject from this angle. As there isn't much likelyhood that I will be able to speak with anyone connected to the ritual beginnings it is also unlikely I will be able to find any evidence.

Q-What makes burial grounds holy?
A-because we say so.

Q-When was the last time an upset spirit came back and wiped out a village?
A-......

And so on. I am fighting to keep my opinion out of this, but it is difficult.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Hmm... I'll have to think on this after some coffee and soup, since apparently I'm suddenly ravenous.

[Cramulus]

Q-When was the last time an upset spirit came back and wiped out a village?
A-......

if you live in a culture which believes in spirits, the evidence is everywhere

back before we had the medical term "night terrors", we used to think that when somebody woke up in the middle of the night totally paralyzed, what was actually happening was that a homonculus was sitting on his chest.

in europe, they used to think that illness was caused by sin. If you got sick, you probably just weren't praying enough.

so there's tons of "evidence" for any given superstition, but that evidence may only make sense to the culture where that belief comes from.

[Adios]

Q-When was the last time an upset spirit came back and wiped out a village?
A-......

if you live in a culture which believes in spirits, the evidence is everywhere

back before we had the medical term "night terrors", we used to think that when somebody woke up in the middle of the night totally paralyzed, what was actually happening was that a homonculus was sitting on his chest.

in europe, they used to think that illness was caused by sin. If you got sick, you probably just weren't praying enough.

so there's tons of "evidence" for any given superstition, but that evidence may only make sense to the culture where that belief comes from.

And this is why the word "evidence" is in quotation marks. My quest is for quantifiable proof, and we all know where that is headed. I am looking not to prove, but to disprove superstition. Debunking is the correct phrase here.

[Adios]

Dok Alphapance.

The barstool has been applied to this vein of research.

Now it's time to toss out everything I do know, and look for ....something else.

[LMNO]

we need a firm starting point, and go from there.  Researching other people's imaginations does not seem to be the correct way to go at this time.

[Adios]

we need a firm starting point, and go from there.  Researching other people's imaginations does not seem to be the correct way to go at this time.

Agreed.
There is 'evidence' caught on tape and voice recorders. Some it can be vetted to a 'known' I suppose.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I wouldn't call this my own personal theory, just the scenario that strikes me as most logical regarding ghosts and the afterlife and shit.

Fear of death, fear of one's precious identity simply ceasing to exist gives rise to the aspect of most any religion which covers the afterlife or reincarnation or whatever else.

Existence or non existence of said afterlife is unprovable so I'm not even going to enter into that here, suffice to say that any expectation of said afterlife appears to me to be denial-based wish fulfilment at it's most outlandish. However, given that the fear of death is a very real fear for a vast amount of people, ultimately perhaps the biggest fear, it's unsurprising to me to see how even the most rational minded individuals would be prepared to buy into pretty much any explanation, especially one as popularly presented as the mainstream religious ones.

I've always said - if you're going to believe in god then you have to believe in the devil but it runs much deeper than that. In order to believe in the bible, for instance, one is expected (if not altogether required) to believe in such things as virgin birth, raising of the dead, possession by demons, water sidestepping the normal fermentation process on it's way to alcohol...

I think notions of ghosts and spirits fit quite neatly in here. If you're prepared to accept that your immortal soul flys up out of your body when you die and goes somewhere then it aint a huge leap of faith to imagine a scenario where it's interrupted on it's journey, for whatever reason, which begs the question - what does it do next?

[Adios]

I wouldn't call this my own personal theory, just the scenario that strikes me as most logical regarding ghosts and the afterlife and shit.

Fear of death, fear of one's precious identity simply ceasing to exist gives rise to the aspect of most any religion which covers the afterlife or reincarnation or whatever else.

Existence or non existence of said afterlife is unprovable so I'm not even going to enter into that here, suffice to say that any expectation of said afterlife appears to me to be denial-based wish fulfilment at it's most outlandish. However, given that the fear of death is a very real fear for a vast amount of people, ultimately perhaps the biggest fear, it's unsurprising to me to see how even the most rational minded individuals would be prepared to buy into pretty much any explanation, especially one as popularly presented as the mainstream religious ones.

I've always said - if you're going to believe in god then you have to believe in the devil but it runs much deeper than that. In order to believe in the bible, for instance, one is expected (if not altogether required) to believe in such things as virgin birth, raising of the dead, possession by demons, water sidestepping the normal fermentation process on it's way to alcohol...

I think notions of ghosts and spirits fit quite neatly in here. If you're prepared to accept that your immortal soul flys up out of your body when you die and goes somewhere then it aint a huge leap of faith to imagine a scenario where it's interrupted on it's journey, for whatever reason, which begs the question - what does it do next?

My goal is to debunk, then see what is left over. Having seen shit makes it a credible investigation.

[P3nT4gR4m]

My goal is to debunk, then see what is left over. Having seen shit makes it a credible investigation.

No arguments there. I just think that, speaking personally, I'd begin my investigation pretty much anywhere other than spirits and afterlifes. Individual or mass hallucination, echoes of the past or future via some function of time which we don't understand yet ... ghosts/spirits for me is the least likely explanation - I'd want to exhaust ever other imaginable explanation first.

[Adios]

My goal is to debunk, then see what is left over. Having seen shit makes it a credible investigation.

No arguments there. I just think that, speaking personally, I'd begin my investigation pretty much anywhere other than spirits and afterlifes. Individual or mass hallucination, echoes of the past or future via some function of time which we don't understand yet ... ghosts/spirits for me is the least likely explanation - I'd want to exhaust ever other imaginable explanation first.

Actually one of my target areas.

[Adios]

A big problem I have with so much of this;

"...in Victorian Era clothing....."

I guess ghosts can only come from that era.