The Misinterpretation of Historical Events

[Nephew Twiddleton]

This has probably been tackled before, but I haven't seen that thread yet, and a post I made a few minutes ago made me think of it.

I disagree with the Tea Party for a variety of reasons (pretty much all of them), but the thing that bothers me about them the most is the gall that they have to steal the image of one of the few cool things my city has done. Ok, you hate taxes and the American Revolution and the events leading up to it is about as American as you can make your movement. So start with the shouting of "No taxation without representation!"

Yeah! I fully agree! But you're overlooking the last two words. Think about it. Without representation. Congress, the governmental body that is empowered to levy taxes against the American people, is your representation. The members of Congress are chosen by the people (of the people, for the people, etc, etc). Wanting lower taxes and less governmental interference by the accepted governing body of the US is not the same demand as being a British colony not enjoying representation in Parliament. DC is the only place in the US that has a right to bitch about this.

No taxation without representation is not the same as no taxation period. And the converse of the statement is also true. No representation without taxation. You want a piece of the government pie, you gotta pay your dues.

That is all for the moment.

[Cramulus]

to play texas advocate for a second,

cultural re appropriation is unavoidable. It's natural for events and historical figures get picked up and contextualized by different groups or causes.

The meaning of a historical event isn't concrete, it's up for interpretation. The fact that Bostonites read this particular act of rebellion as a cry for representative democracy doesn't preclude the GOP from reading it as a rebellion against the perception of tyranny.

We may think it's WHACK ATTACK that glenn beck held his privileged rage rally on the same day as martin luther king's I Have A Dream speech... but you gotta admit that if you want to send a message about an uplifting, empowering change, that's a pretty evocative date regardless of your relationship to MLKs specific points.

So sadly, even though the Tea Party was in Boston, I don't think the Bostonites necessarily own the "true" reading of it.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

to play texas advocate for a second,

cultural re appropriation is unavoidable. It's natural for events and historical figures get picked up and contextualized by different groups or causes.

The meaning of a historical event isn't concrete, it's up for interpretation. The fact that Bostonites read this particular act of rebellion as a cry for representative democracy doesn't preclude the GOP from reading it as a rebellion against the perception of tyranny.

We may think it's WHACK ATTACK that glenn beck held his privileged rage rally on the same day as martin luther king's I Have A Dream speech... but you gotta admit that if you want to send a message about an uplifting, empowering change, that's a pretty evocative date regardless of your relationship to MLKs specific points.

So sadly, even though the Tea Party was in Boston, I don't think the Bostonites necessarily own the "true" reading of it.

No, we don't own it specifically, all of America owns it-but they're still missing out on the without representation bit.
If they want to use the phrase, they should hack off or alter the second half. Or come up with their own slogan and brand name.

[East Coast Hustle]

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I am compelled to point out that Dc is not the only place in the US suffering from taxation without representation.

Puerto Rico, the USVI, Guam, and the CNMI are all in the same boat.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I am compelled to point out that Dc is not the only place in the US suffering from taxation without representation.

Puerto Rico, the USVI, Guam, and the CNMI are all in the same boat.

You are correct, thanks for pointing out my oversight. I wonder how this could be corrected in such places, without necessarily applying for statehood (since that's an unresolved question, at least in PR)

[Cramulus]

No, we don't own it specifically, all of America owns it-but they're still missing out on the without representation bit.
If they want to use the phrase, they should hack off or alter the second half. Or come up with their own slogan and brand name.

ah but in their minds, they do not have to change anything. they are not consciously reappropriating! The meaning of the event, regardless of the language, is clear to them.  The intent is to present their movement as a continuation of some proto-american rebellious tradition. Your particular reading of it is just as much of a fiction.

don't get me wrong, I think it's whack attack too.

[Juana]

I'd be happy if they'd just look at the context. Ignorance, willful or otherwise, is not an excuse.


Of course, I'd also be happy if they'd all get over the idea that taxation is always theft.

[Phox]

Not that I don't agree with the general sentiment of this thread, but...

District of Columbia-Delegate, Democrat
2136 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515-5100
Phone: (202) 225-8050
Committees:
Committee on Homeland Security
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Subcommittees:
Aviation (Transportation and Infrastructure)
Economic Development, Public Buildings, and Emergency Management (Transportation and Infrastructure)
Emergency Communications, Preparedness, and Response (HHM)
Federal Workforce, Postal Service, and the District of Columbia (Oversight and Government Reform)
Information Policy, Census, and National Archives (Oversight and Government Reform)
Transportation Security and Infrastructure Protection (HHM)
Water Resources and Environment (Transportation and Infrastructure)

Eni F. H. Faleomavaega
American Samoa-Delegate, Democrat
2422 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515-5201
Phone: (202) 225-8577
Committees:
Committee on Foreign Affairs
Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittees:
Asia, the Pacific, and the Global Environment (Foreign Affairs)
Energy and Mineral Resources (Natural Resources)
Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife (Natural Resources)
The Western Hemisphere (Foreign Affairs)

Madeleine Z. Bordallo
Guam-Delegate, Democrat
427 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515-5301
Phone: (202) 225-1188
Committees:
Committee on Armed Services
Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittees:
Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife (Natural Resources)
Military Personnel (Armed Services)
National Parks, Forests and Public Lands (Natural Resources)
Readiness (Armed Services)

Pedro R. Pierluisi
Puerto Rico-Resident Commissioner, Democrat
1218 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515-5401
Phone: (202) 225-2615
Committees:
Committee on Education and Labor
Committee on the Judiciary
Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittees:
Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security (Judiciary)
Early Childhood, Elementary and Secondary Education (Education and Labor)
Higher Education, Lifelong Learning and Competitiveness (Education and Labor)
Immigration, Citizenship, Refugees, Border Security, and International Law (Judiciary)
Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife (Natural Resources)
National Parks, Forests and Public Lands (Natural Resources)

Donna M. Christensen
Virgin Islands-Delegate, Democrat
1510 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515-5501
Phone: (202) 225-1790
Committees:
Committee on Energy and Commerce
Committee on Natural Resources
Subcommittees:
Communications, Technology, and the Internet (Energy and Commerce)
Health (Energy and Commerce)
Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife (Natural Resources)
National Parks, Forests and Public Lands (Natural Resources)
Oversight and Investigations (Energy and Commerce)

Do their delegates in the House of Representatives not count (serious question, I don't know if these delegates count as members of the House or what they can do, etc.)? I don't know what CNMI is, though, but looking through the list of members on the House's website, unless it's American Samoa, they don't appear to be represented.

[Don Coyote]

CNMI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNMI

[East Coast Hustle]

the delegates you list are only allowed to vote in committee, not on the floor during the actual votes that count towards passage of legislation.

CNMI is the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (Saipan, Tinian, Rota).

[Phox]

the delegates you list are only allowed to vote in committee, not on the floor during the actual votes that count towards passage of legislation.

CNMI is the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (Saipan, Tinian, Rota).

Ah. I see. Then no, they don't count. Good to know. CMNI does have a delegate though, I just missed it the first time through the list.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

No, we don't own it specifically, all of America owns it-but they're still missing out on the without representation bit.
If they want to use the phrase, they should hack off or alter the second half. Or come up with their own slogan and brand name.

ah but in their minds, they do not have to change anything. they are not consciously reappropriating! The meaning of the event, regardless of the language, is clear to them.  The intent is to present their movement as a continuation of some proto-american rebellious tradition. Your particular reading of it is just as much of a fiction.

don't get me wrong, I think it's whack attack too.

Oh, I know, you're pointing out their logic. I don't know, if I decided to adopt a slogan and an evocative movement name, I would at least double check all the angles of interpretation of them before I ended up looking like an idiot mindlessly chanting a mantra that I didn't fully understand.

Like the whole right to bear arms argument to resist the government trying to enact gun control laws (they turk rrr ghens!!!), ignoring that the reason given is that a "well regulated militia" is "necessary for the security of a free state". Now, I don't disagree with someone if they want to buy a couple of guns, but if your state has heavy regulations for it, then it's not infringing on your right, since most gun owners aren't militia members, and the need for militias for maintaining security is obsolete.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Inspired slightly inebriated troll on Yahoo Answers.
The politics section is so easy:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100923013149AApW82r&r=w

[Disco Pickle]

I'd be happy if they'd just look at the context. Ignorance, willful or otherwise, is not an excuse.


Of course, I'd also be happy if they'd all get over the idea that taxation is always theft.

I'm aware there are certain people who consider all taxation theft, but my interpretation from people I've spoken with who think along these lines is that taxation under threat of violence and imprisonment with noncompliance is theft, no less than robbing someone at gunpoint is theft.  And these people are almost always talking about the income tax, not taxes on products and services, be they necessary or voluntarily used.

incidentally, what are your thoughts on employers paying people under the table, i.e. not withholding income tax and paying it in to the system? 

[Adios]

Slight tangent, but I don't feel represented.