Dignity in Death.

[Jasper]

Anywhere that is quiet and still enough to hear yourself think.

That is where dignity is.

Dignity is "people demanding to be treated as people". It goes hand in hand with respect, which is "treating people like people".

Well yeah, I mean it's in the dictionary right there.  I was trying for more of a profound sort of thing.  Nevermind.

[Kai]

http://lesswrong.com/lw/k8/how_to_seem_and_be_deep/

[Jasper]

That's not the standard method people use to tell me I'm full of shit, but alright.

In this world, there are a few people willing to give and receive respect with us.  With them, we have a measure of dignity.  Although even in exceptional cases, it's not perfect.  People generally aren't.  And outside of those precious few, most people won't even bother themselves if they see you having a heart attack or getting raped and murdered.  They're bystanders at best, and tyrants at worst, until some mutual dignity can be established.  There's no dignity in a city, where human contact has become too much of a good thing.  But alone, where it is quiet, and we find a moment to reflect, is the only time we can exist without the untoward pressure to behave.  Perhaps I am weaker than most in this way, but I cannot be pleasant forever without time to myself, to gather the parts of me that must be silenced in order to appear polite and socially compliant.  When I'm alone, I have at least the dignity of my own thoughts. 

Complete that pattern, why don't ya.

[Cramulus]

http://lesswrong.com/lw/k8/how_to_seem_and_be_deep/

ooh
thanks for posting that, it was a great read

[Jenne]

Yeah, there's no dignity in what happens to you in any sense of the word when you die.  I just finished reading that Stiff book http://www.amazon.com/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0393050939 ...and yeah, everything that happens to you?  It's pretty damned undignified, no matter what the result may LOOK like.

[Jasper]

I read that too.

My only other thought is that when yo die, is it appropriate to keep associating the person with the body?  I think a person can go on existing as a construct after they're dead.  The people who knew them well have little models of them in their heads.  The world has information from their minds imprinted in it.  That's the stuff that should be treated with dignity.  The body is just messy stuff that some people have a use for, perhaps.

[Jenne]

I think we have no choice.  We know each other as corporeal beings, even if you have never seen their bodies before.  Take online existences--how do you relate to a person whose words you see on a screen?  Do you imagine them in space, or typing them out?

I think it's really tough to truly MISS someone unless you can conceptualize their physical being, but perhaps I'm overgeneralizing from my own experience.  I know it's physically painful to me when I've lost someone I love and have loved.  And I feel way less connected if I don't know someone IRL or have never met them or even talked with them on the phone.  Physicality makes attachment just that much stronger, I believe.  The rest seems just so much conjecture.

[Jasper]

Just because it's natural to feel that way, doesn't make it true or okay.

These days however, most of my relational needs are satisfied by text messages, phone calls, emails, and forums.  I have a pretty strong mind/body disconnection going right now.

[Jenne]

What is this "true"?  What is this "okay"?  It just is. 

As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.

[Jasper]

What is this "true"?  What is this "okay"?  It just is. 

Basically I'm placing a value judgment on a feeling that I sometimes have.  I am okay with this.

As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.

Which?

[Jenne]

What is this "true"?  What is this "okay"?  It just is. 

Basically I'm placing a value judgment on a feeling that I sometimes have.  I am okay with this.

As to the second part of your second paragraph, Felix...the first sentence explains it all.

Which?

Huh.  K.  And I meant the first part of your 2d paragraph explains the last half--your feeling of disconnection could be because you're pretty physically disconnected.