Author Topic: USA Politics Bottomlined?  (Read 9475 times)

Bobby Campbell

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USA Politics Bottomlined?
« on: October 17, 2010, 12:53:00 am »
If you make less than $250,000 per year: vote Democrat.
If you make more than $250,000 per year: You can vote Republican if you do not support social programs or you can vote Democrat if you do.

I like oversimplifications sometimes, because they can cut through bullshit nuance.

I suspect many people will have reasons to disagree, what are they, please?

Cain

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 01:45:26 am »
Are you suggesting this is what people actually do, or this is what people should do?

Bobby Campbell

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 01:59:01 am »
What they should do, generally speaking.

Cain

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 02:03:38 am »
OK.  

I disagree, because the Dems are every bit the idiotic, power-grabbing, oligarchical, authoritarian and murderous pricks the GOP are.  That they try to buy votes through minimal concessions to common sense just indicates they are smarter than the GOP, which is not a difficult feat, all things considered.

Bobby Campbell

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 02:09:24 am »
I agree with all that, Cain!

I still think the basic economic premises of the two parties dictates my scenario, less of 2 evils style.

East Coast Hustle

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 02:25:37 am »
my job depends on wasteful defense spending, so I'm probably gonna vote Republican.

also, the Democratic party makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little. At least the GOP is funny.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Cain

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 02:36:44 am »
The basic economic premises of both of the parties are to enrich their most powerful supporters at the expense of their opposition's backers.  Unless you personally are an insurance company or a bank, then the Democrats' very minor differences in other areas of their economic policy may make your life 0.000000001% better....but at least 95% of everything they do will be actively designed to fuck you over or even get you killed.  It's like arguing Hitler is better than Stalin, essentially.  Either way, you're still living in a situation whereby any objective standard says you are well and truly fucked.

Bobby Campbell

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 02:53:46 am »
I can respect that, First City Hustle!

I can't relate entirely w/ your analysis, Cain, but thanks for the feedback! I suspect your opinion is a popular one.

I still feel comfortable asserting my scenario.

More objections are encouraged!

East Coast Hustle

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 03:28:28 am »
whether or not you can relate, Cain's analysis (not an opinion) is absolutely true.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Bobby Campbell

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 03:47:03 am »
whether or not you can relate, Cain's analysis (not an opinion) is absolutely true.

It could very well be, it also pretty much supports my scenario.

Unless I misunderstand, he states that people outside of a certain economic situation will have 5% of their lives improved upon by 0.000000001% w/ a Democrat run government.

Those percentages seem perhaps a bit pessimistic to me. As does the Hitler/Stalin Comparison. And by no objective standard will I get well or truly fucked!

I understand most people do not have much optimism left, I don't blame them, but nor do I have any reason to join them.

I still think despite the well calculated emotional appeals to the contrary, poor - middle class people should generally vote for democrats.


East Coast Hustle

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 04:06:13 am »
what do you think the Democratic party does/will do that will help the poor or middle class any more than the GOP?
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

East Coast Hustle

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 04:08:02 am »
and do you not count the tactic of levying higher taxes on the wealthy which will never go to help the aforementioned poor and middle classes as a well-calculated emotional appeal for votes?
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Bobby Campbell

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 04:53:46 am »
I suppose the proposition of levying higher taxes on the rich to help fund social programs may count as an emotional appeal, and that they may not work exactly as advertised, but they still exist, they still function, they still help a little.

I'll even go w/ the metaphor of the one puppet master holding a donkey puppet & an elephant puppet. But at least the donkey puppet has to pretend to help! and in that pretending, the facade does more than nothing.

The consumer protections seem to help a little. The health care bill seems to help a little. The infrastructure upgrade could help a little.

Okay so the Dem's kind of Robin Hood style emotional appeal may have a degree of bait and switch, but it pales in comparison to the Republican's.

The Republican's have based themselves almost entirely on getting people to vote against their own best economic interests based on christian dogma, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc.

A guy might vote against extending his own unemployment benefits, and getting health care treatment for his preexisting conditions, because the president has a muslim sounding middle name.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 05:23:11 am by Bobby Campbell »

East Coast Hustle

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 06:03:15 am »
what makes you think that taxes on the rich go to fund social programs? For that matter, what makes you think the rich ever actually end up paying any of those increased taxes?

hint: they don't, it's just an emotional appeal to get your vote.

and you're focusing on the trappings of each party rather than what REALLY goes on. The truth is, they're both bought and paid for by the same interests. Your vote for a democrat candidate does absolutely nothing that your vote for a GOP candidate wouldn't do. In the end, Bechtel/KBR/GenDyne/Lockheed-Martin/BofA/Goldman-Sachs/etc. still own your ass. Not saying you should vote one way or another or that you shouldn't cote however you want to, but you should do it without being under an illusions that it makes a tangible difference. The only elections that matter to your daily life in a tangible manner are your municipal and maybe some state elections.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: USA Politics Bottomlined?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2010, 06:25:08 am »
You know what?

Two years ago, I voted Democrat because I swallowed Obama's bullshit. I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. I don't blame myself for being stupid (I mean, the facts added up well enough: Obama started dirt poor and had to work his ass off to get where he was, and there's really no logical reason to sell out at that point), but I do blame myself for being optimistic.

Obama and the Democrats have controlled Washington for 2 years now as a unit. They could have enacted serious reform: they could have scrapped Medicare and Medicaid and created a single-payer system and fucked the corrupt insurance companies right out of existenc, but they didn't. They could have brought the hammer of Thor down on Wall Street and obliterated corporate shenanigans, but they didn't. Obama single-handedly could order the DOJ to stop enforcing stupid Marijuana laws, even if the weren't repealed: he hasn't. He is the commander in chief; he could have ordered the DOD the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and closed Gitmo on day one. He didn't. He could have done a million things he was elected to do, but in every single case, he has sold the soul of reform for a few token votes from Republicans who hate him anyway. He isn't a stupid man, there's no way he doesn't realize this, therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that he did it on purpose.

Obama and the rest of the Democrats took the wave of Progressivism sweeping the country that began in 2006 and culminated in 2008 with his election, and they have effectively reversed it, and then some. Now, the country is more batshit crazy for failed economic and social policies than ever. And it isn't because progressive policies don't work (the meager progress the Democrats have made is making meager progress in the economy, for example) but because the Democrats have shit all over you with your own "Hope" for "Change".

Why would I vote for another Democrat? No, thanks. I can't defend them at the polls because they've given me nothing to defend except more of the same old bullshit that has been in Washington for 40 years. The only thing I have to thank Obama for is that I have been completely freed from the delusion that the broken American political system is capable of fixing itself.
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