Hate Crime

[BadBeast]

For instance, a young black man is walking home one night, and gets beaten up by two white lads on their way home from the Pub, for no apparent reason
other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The two offenders are caught, taken to Court, and prosecuted.  Quite right too. There's no excuse for this type of behaviour. However, if during the assault, the black man was called a nigger, or some other term of racial abuse, or if there is any indication that the attack was racially motivated, then it becomes a "Hate crime", and is viewed in quite a different light. My point is, why should there have to be a distinction between the original assault, and
one that is racially motivated? Surely whatever the motivation is behind it, the Law should be sufficient to deal with the offenders? After all, the black man was just as assaulted, whatever the motivation was. The addition of "Hate Crime" categorisations implies that the Law is insufficient to deal with current offences, and needs changing.
And it doesn't. If anything, it needs to be implemented with more across the board consistency.
I'm not saying that attacking someone on the basis of their race isn't a heinous thing to do, it quite obviously is. But so is attacking someone on the basis of being too drunk to show any self control.
If, in Court, someone says, as a reason for their Crime, "I did it because they were black" or  "I did it because they were gay", and the Court accepts that this in some way mitigates the Crime, then it is clearly the Judiciary that is at fault, not the existing Laws that are in place to deal with such crimes. 
Also, more Police resources are allocated to anything that might be called a Hate Crime. So if two assaults of similar severity are committed at the same time, and one of them is deemed to fit the Hate Crime profile, guess which one gets investigated, and which one gets put on the back burner? 
  An assault is an assault. The motivation behind it does not make any one incident worse than another, or any better than another.
It doesn't make the assault any less serious. Especially to the victim. And the sudden appearence of so many "Hate Crimes" in the Media, just makes people more afraid.
So is HateCrime a new phenomena? Or just a Political move to justify giving the Police more powers?  Shouldn't the Police treat all crime with the same level of efficiency?
Or should they be allowed to pick and choose whichever ones make them look better in the eyes of the current Political climate?  What do you think?

[Jasper]

Funny thing about moral issues is that nobody notices them until somebody points them out.

I hypothesize that there are just as many as there always were, but, like a new word that you keep hearing, we're just noticing them more now that it's widely recognized as a problem.

An assault is one thing, but an assault with the specific intent of oppressing a minority is the same kind of crime that killed roughly 50 million people in the 20th century.

So, expect stigmas.  There has to be a proportionate backlash to that sort of thing, and we haven't even made a dent yet.

[The Johnny]

If im not mistaken, "Hate Crime" is a category that began to exist in the early 80's?

I dont know the reason of its origins, but, researching it i could imagine this category of crime was pushed and legislated by people of color.

I personally feel infurated when people are targeted because of just belonging to a minority, but im not sure that its worth more punishment than the act on itself deserves. I mean, if its a "Hate Crime" murder, or just a plain murder, its still despisable murder.

Now, playing devil's advocate against myself, this measure could had been in place to do negative incentive to provide more protection for minorities?

[Jasper]

It is simple.  Bigotry has perpetrated greater crimes against humanity than anything before it, and it is evil by any definition, and it must be quashed forever, so that the world can exist, perhaps only a while at best, without it.  Enough is enough. 

[Phox]

What differentiates one assault from another? Motivation. Getting sloppy drunk and beating up some poor fuck who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad. Seeking out somebody to beat the bejeezus out of them is worse. Beating the living tar out of someone for being different... well, that's tricky, that is. Compare: getting shitfaced and killing someone in a car accident and intentionally running over someone with your vehicle and killing them. Which is worse? Now, which is worse: intentionally killing someone because they pissed you off, or intentionally killing someone because they are different?

Now, playing devil's advocate against myself, this measure could had been in place to do negative incentive to provide more protection for minorities?

Seems likely. I am unsure whether it is the case or not, however.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

It is simple.  Bigotry has perpetrated greater crimes against humanity than anything before it, and it is evil by any definition, and it must be quashed forever, so that the world can exist, perhaps only a while at best, without it.  Enough is enough. 

You seem to be under the impression that Bigotry will ever end. People will still be finding stupid reasons to hate/kill each other long after you and me have passed.

[BadBeast]

What differentiates one assault from another? Motivation. Getting sloppy drunk and beating up some poor fuck who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad. Seeking out somebody to beat the bejeezus out of them is worse. Beating the living tar out of someone for being different... well, that's tricky, that is. Compare: getting shitfaced and killing someone in a car accident and intentionally running over someone with your vehicle and killing them. Which is worse? Now, which is worse: intentionally killing someone because they pissed you off, or intentionally killing someone because they are different?

The Law already distinguishes here, one is "Causing death by drunken driving" the other, "Murder".
Killing someone because they pissed you off, is still the same Crime as killing someone for being different. If being different pisses the Murderer off.
I'm not saying that we should ease off on fighting bigotry at all. Just that classing some crimes as hatecrimes, isn't going to make any difference.

How about if half a dozen citizens went out one night and beat a child molestor to death? Is that a hatecrime?

[The Johnny]

What differentiates one assault from another? Motivation. Getting sloppy drunk and beating up some poor fuck who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad. Seeking out somebody to beat the bejeezus out of them is worse. Beating the living tar out of someone for being different... well, that's tricky, that is. Compare: getting shitfaced and killing someone in a car accident and intentionally running over someone with your vehicle and killing them. Which is worse? Now, which is worse: intentionally killing someone because they pissed you off, or intentionally killing someone because they are different?

The Law already distinguishes here, one is "Causing death by drunken driving" the other, "Murder".
Killing someone because they pissed you off, is still the same Crime as killing someone for being different. If being different pisses the Murderer off.
I'm not saying that we should ease off on fighting bigotry at all. Just that classing some crimes as hatecrimes, isn't going to make any difference.

How about if half a dozen citizens went out one night and beat a child molestor to death? Is that a hatecrime?

Is the "child molestor" category something you are born into?

[Jasper]

It is simple.  Bigotry has perpetrated greater crimes against humanity than anything before it, and it is evil by any definition, and it must be quashed forever, so that the world can exist, perhaps only a while at best, without it.  Enough is enough. 

You seem to be under the impression that Bigotry will ever end. People will still be finding stupid reasons to hate/kill each other long after you and me have passed.

Apathy, much?

If you are born into a crapsack world, the best you can do is not be a crapsack person.

I'm not saying you are, but I am saying that apathy makes it easier for evil shit to keep happening.

[BadBeast]

What differentiates one assault from another? Motivation. Getting sloppy drunk and beating up some poor fuck who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad. Seeking out somebody to beat the bejeezus out of them is worse. Beating the living tar out of someone for being different... well, that's tricky, that is. Compare: getting shitfaced and killing someone in a car accident and intentionally running over someone with your vehicle and killing them. Which is worse? Now, which is worse: intentionally killing someone because they pissed you off, or intentionally killing someone because they are different?

The Law already distinguishes here, one is "Causing death by drunken driving" the other, "Murder".
Killing someone because they pissed you off, is still the same Crime as killing someone for being different. If being different pisses the Murderer off.
I'm not saying that we should ease off on fighting bigotry at all. Just that classing some crimes as hatecrimes, isn't going to make any difference.

How about if half a dozen citizens went out one night and beat a child molestor to death? Is that a hatecrime?

Is the "child molestor" category something you are born into?

Not sure. Does it matter?

[Jasper]

It can't work like that, even if it would in theory, because we have the duty and prerogative of punishing such behaviors.

It would be simple assault, because until pedophilia's neurological origins are isolated and treatable, it's just fucked people ruining kids' lives.

[BadBeast]

It can't work like that, even if it would in theory, because we have the duty and prerogative of punishing such behaviors.

It would be simple assault, because until pedophilia's neurological origins are isolated and treatable, it's just fucked people ruining kids' lives.

But whatever the cause of wrongcockedness, would beating someone to death on that basis, be a hatecrime?

[Jasper]

Is beating someone to death because of their autism a hate crime?

I think so, but only because I can kind of tolerate them, usually, mostly.

[Phox]

What differentiates one assault from another? Motivation. Getting sloppy drunk and beating up some poor fuck who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad. Seeking out somebody to beat the bejeezus out of them is worse. Beating the living tar out of someone for being different... well, that's tricky, that is. Compare: getting shitfaced and killing someone in a car accident and intentionally running over someone with your vehicle and killing them. Which is worse? Now, which is worse: intentionally killing someone because they pissed you off, or intentionally killing someone because they are different?

The Law already distinguishes here, one is "Causing death by drunken driving" the other, "Murder".
Killing someone because they pissed you off, is still the same Crime as killing someone for being different. If being different pisses the Murderer off.
I'm not saying that we should ease off on fighting bigotry at all. Just that classing some crimes as hatecrimes, isn't going to make any difference.

How about if half a dozen citizens went out one night and beat a child molestor to death? Is that a hatecrime?

I didn't make it clear, but let's ignore all laws for the moment. You and I are making the laws.  So, answer my questions from that perspective.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Is beating someone to death because of their autism a hate crime?

I think so, but only because I can kind of tolerate them, usually, mostly.

Just to play the devils advocate here:

What your saying is its a hate crime if its done to someone who I tolerate but its not if its done to someone I hate.