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More Spider Music from the Spider Project

Started by LMNO, November 18, 2010, 10:56:08 AM

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Shub-Crackerath

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 24, 2011, 07:02:58 PM
It's ok.  I'm surprised it lasted this long.  Not gonna stop, though.

Shub, I do have a degree in music production and engineering, and while what you say is true about giving yourself a saftey net as far as dynamic range goes, a competent engineer will get the levels right the first time.  You're not adding anything to the mix, you're simply covering your own ass.  And, much like playing a Rickenbacker through a Big Muff and a Marshall stack, the kind of clarity they're referring to cannot be discerned in the majority of modern music.

And, for 3D3N's, and others' sake, I will endevour to provide a short essay about my philosophy of what The Spider Project "is", from its creation to its completion.

the essay is actually a good idea, for many reasons, clarity of your mission being one.

a competant engineer may get the levels right the first time, but a competant engineer should also consider that they are not infallible, and use all the tools at their disposal for the best possible result. not leaving yourself a safety net is how you end up on the floor with a broken spine. And no offence mate, but you didnt get them right first time. Im not telling you what to do, i am presenting you with what i have learned and been taught hopefully to expand BOTH our experiences (but im not so vain as to think that the way i know is the only way). I mean, is that not how you learn, through questioning discussing and practice???

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 24, 2011, 06:55:05 PM
This thread is no longer a fun exercise that LMNO is doing for the shit of it.

It is now a thread full of self-appointed fucking gasbags that should all drink drano and fucking die.  Each and every one of you wannabe expert shit-knockers.  Seriously.  Did you think you were going to IMPRESS anyone with your Goddamn bullshit?  Are we to stand in awe of your superior knowledge?  Are you expecting LMNO to redo everything to make YOU happy?

I fucking hate you all.  Die in a burning car wreck.  That is all.

Yes roger, that is all you have to add to a technical discussion. Well done you angry muggle, i knew it wouldn't be long before you jumped in to save your "war-buddy" a-la grecque.

Just save the hatred for those that care, and next time you might want to find out a little about what "gas bags" are talking about before you steal someone elses insult to use at people using terms you might not understand.

Adios

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 24, 2011, 07:02:58 PM
It's ok.  I'm surprised it lasted this long.  Not gonna stop, though.

Shub, I do have a degree in music production and engineering, and while what you say is true about giving yourself a saftey net as far as dynamic range goes, a competent engineer will get the levels right the first time.  You're not adding anything to the mix, you're simply covering your own ass.  And, much like playing a Rickenbacker through a Big Muff and a Marshall stack, the kind of clarity they're referring to cannot be discerned in the majority of modern music.

And, for 3D3N's, and others' sake, I will endevour to provide a short essay about my philosophy of what The Spider Project "is", from its creation to its completion.

You've been turning out quality for years now without their "help".

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Shub-Crackerath on January 24, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
Yes roger, that is all you have to add to a technical discussion. Well done you angry muggle, i knew it wouldn't be long before you jumped in to save your "war-buddy" a-la grecque.

Just save the hatred for those that care, and next time you might want to find out a little about what "gas bags" are talking about before you steal someone elses insult to use at people using terms you might not understand.


Did you just say "muggle"?

:lulz:  :lulz:  :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Shub-Crackerath

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 24, 2011, 07:20:20 PM
Quote from: Shub-Crackerath on January 24, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
Yes roger, that is all you have to add to a technical discussion. Well done you angry muggle, i knew it wouldn't be long before you jumped in to save your "war-buddy" a-la grecque.

Just save the hatred for those that care, and next time you might want to find out a little about what "gas bags" are talking about before you steal someone elses insult to use at people using terms you might not understand.


Did you just say "muggle"?

:lulz:  :lulz:  :lulz:

you can read?????? awesome. teach me master.

Adios


Shub-Crackerath

Quote from: Charley Brown on January 24, 2011, 07:41:26 PM
Unlimited thread time?

listen up dickhole, as much as you are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to express it, I am entitled to have a vocational discussion with people in my chosen field. If my view differs from theirs, does that make me less than human??? does that mean i waive my right to post???

I find it quite hypocritical that you outwardly profess a needfor "thinking for ones self", but as soon as someone with an opinion differing from an "alpha" on here you all get all hyper-shit-pelt-action.

But then you already know you are hypocrites,I've seen you all discussing it for years.

and you just get worse.


LMNO

IN THE BEGINNING...

Roger wrote me a letter, posted in Apple Talk.  It was a deliciously paranoid work about spiders and pills, and all but demanded a response.  Getting into the right headspace, I offered up more observations about modern culture and advertising.  Then some more people got into the act.  The thread grew organically, with a good chunk of the board tossing in their perspective of what "Spider" "Pills" "Webs" and "HAPPY™" means to them.  

Next thing you know, someone has snatched them up, threw them into a layout program, added images, and created a PDF of the first few pages of the thread.  It was pretty impressive, and had an impact on me.  I decided to set the thread to music.  I quickly looked around for inspiration or examples.

For starters, the pieces were essentially spoken word prose, with one or two exceptions.  My mind turned in a few different directions.  The Golden Palominos Dead Inside album came instantly to mind, as did Anton Feir's Japanese chattering Dreamspeed.  More than a few things of Burroughs has been set to music, and then there's Tom Waits' spiels.  Einstürzende Neubauten and The Birthday Party also have similar uses of spoken/non-meter words, so I thought I'd start in that direction.

TGRR was nice enough to record himself on his computer, which added an interesting element-- a non-musician speaking through a low-quality mic, which is intended to be the focal point of the entire song.  Background noise and timing became key elements to account for when editing the pieces.  Other PD people did the same, and Roaring Biscuit even wrote an entire piece over in Eurospaglandia.  

The other main limitation was that I have both a real job and a real band.  And being married, I have a woman I love involved in my life as well.  So, I've taken to waking up at 5:15 am on weekday mornings to sit in front of my computer for 45 minutes before the coffee maker goes off and begins the workday, and less often for 30 minutes between when I get home after work and when I start making dinner.

Oh, that reminds me.  The equipment I'm working on is a DigiRack 3 (four dual XLR inputs, four ¼" inputs), on ProTools7 (standard package, with standard plug-ins), a few Shure mics (SM57, 52) and a bargain-basement  condenser mic.  I have an imitation Squire guitar with a warped neck, and a Memphis bass I picked up for $50.  And it's in the back room of my condo, where my drum set is not.  So, 97% of the percussion is MIDI (Reason, BFD, Xpand).  Add that to the list of limitations.

As the project progressed, I felt free to wander into whatever musical place I felt worked.  I borrowed heavily from/was inspired by Scorn, Underworld, Dead Can Dance, Tommy Guerrero, NIN... there's even an obvious Interpol nod in there.  I pretty much just start poking around on one device or another, and see where it goes.  The rules are more like suggestions, and if it works, it stays.

I come from mainly a punk/DIY background, and am a big fan of the SST label from the 80s.  As such, I feel that mistakes have just as much possibility as accuracy.  Add to that both my relative inexperience playing non-percussion instruments, and the above limitations of equipment and submitted vocal tracks, and you get what you can call a "lo-fi" product.  But it's not really lo-fi like K records, it's just avoiding that high-gloss polish you get from commercial product, or pure electronica that never sees a microphone and everything is step-recorded into MIDI.  I dunno if you have access to XMU, the satellite indie rock station, but they're playing a lot of the sound this project is headed towards: Deerhoof, Grizzly Bear, Black Keys, Wavves, Best Coast, No Age, Warpaint.  Stuff like that.

So, there you go.  Something that started on September 25, 2009 has been kept alive for more than a year, simply because I'm a stubborn fuck.  Go ahead, ASK ME ANYTHING!

The Good Reverend Roger

Shub doesn't care.  UR DOIN' IT WRONG IN SHUB'S EXPERT OPINION.

Everyone's a fucking producer.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Phox

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on January 24, 2011, 07:50:41 PM
IN THE BEGINNING...

Roger wrote me a letter, posted in Apple Talk.  It was a deliciously paranoid work about spiders and pills, and all but demanded a response.  Getting into the right headspace, I offered up more observations about modern culture and advertising.  Then some more people got into the act.  The thread grew organically, with a good chunk of the board tossing in their perspective of what "Spider" "Pills" "Webs" and "HAPPY™" means to them.  

Next thing you know, someone has snatched them up, threw them into a layout program, added images, and created a PDF of the first few pages of the thread.  It was pretty impressive, and had an impact on me.  I decided to set the thread to music.  I quickly looked around for inspiration or examples.

For starters, the pieces were essentially spoken word prose, with one or two exceptions.  My mind turned in a few different directions.  The Golden Palominos Dead Inside album came instantly to mind, as did Anton Feir's Japanese chattering Dreamspeed.  More than a few things of Burroughs has been set to music, and then there's Tom Waits' spiels.  Einstürzende Neubauten and The Birthday Party also have similar uses of spoken/non-meter words, so I thought I'd start in that direction.

TGRR was nice enough to record himself on his computer, which added an interesting element-- a non-musician speaking through a low-quality mic, which is intended to be the focal point of the entire song.  Background noise and timing became key elements to account for when editing the pieces.  Other PD people did the same, and Roaring Biscuit even wrote an entire piece over in Eurospaglandia.  

The other main limitation was that I have both a real job and a real band.  And being married, I have a woman I love involved in my life as well.  So, I've taken to waking up at 5:15 am on weekday mornings to sit in front of my computer for 45 minutes before the coffee maker goes off and begins the workday, and less often for 30 minutes between when I get home after work and when I start making dinner.

Oh, that reminds me.  The equipment I'm working on is a DigiRack 3 (four dual XLR inputs, four ¼" inputs), on ProTools7 (standard package, with standard plug-ins), a few Shure mics (SM57, 52) and a bargain-basement  condenser mic.  I have an imitation Squire guitar with a warped neck, and a Memphis bass I picked up for $50.  And it's in the back room of my condo, where my drum set is not.  So, 97% of the percussion is MIDI (Reason, BFD, Xpand).  Add that to the list of limitations.

As the project progressed, I felt free to wander into whatever musical place I felt worked.  I borrowed heavily from/was inspired by Scorn, Underworld, Dead Can Dance, Tommy Guerrero, NIN... there's even an obvious Interpol nod in there.  I pretty much just start poking around on one device or another, and see where it goes.  The rules are more like suggestions, and if it works, it stays.

I come from mainly a punk/DIY background, and am a big fan of the SST label from the 80s.  As such, I feel that mistakes have just as much possibility as accuracy.  Add to that both my relative inexperience playing non-percussion instruments, and the above limitations of equipment and submitted vocal tracks, and you get what you can call a "lo-fi" product.  But it's not really lo-fi like K records, it's just avoiding that high-gloss polish you get from commercial product, or pure electronica that never sees a microphone and everything is step-recorded into MIDI.  I dunno if you have access to XMU, the satellite indie rock station, but they're playing a lot of the sound this project is headed towards: Deerhoof, Grizzly Bear, Black Keys, Wavves, Best Coast, No Age, Warpaint.  Stuff like that.

So, there you go.  Something that started on September 25, 2009 has been kept alive for more than a year, simply because I'm a stubborn fuck.  Go ahead, ASK ME ANYTHING!

:mittens:

Shub-Crackerath

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 24, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Shub doesn't care.  UR DOIN' IT WRONG IN SHUB'S EXPERT OPINION.

Everyone's a fucking producer.

thought you could read roger. obviously not.

nowhere do i state i am an expert, far from it in fact. try again

Ari

I hope to get the last side of the piano-frame fixed this month so it can stand upright again without falling apart or on my feet. After some tuning it should play on the level of "rusty cat" - just what I need to supplement my gameboy and record everything through a dead dog's anus. I know this isn't state-of-the-art but I always liked the lo-fi stuff.

Btw LMNO, I loved the entire project so far. Just felt like putting that out there.
パンクビッチ

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Shub-Crackerath on January 24, 2011, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 24, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Shub doesn't care.  UR DOIN' IT WRONG IN SHUB'S EXPERT OPINION.

Everyone's a fucking producer.

thought you could read roger. obviously not.

nowhere do i state i am an expert, far from it in fact. try again

Yeah, you said that, in the same breath in which you said he was doing it wrong.   :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Eater of Clowns

Shub, your so called technical discussion was a bunch of nit picking about informed stylistic choices, not a simple back and forth about the various aspects of the production.  The fact that you decided to throw your weight around with your education on the subject in an attempt to add credence to your argument supports that you aren't interested in talking about it, but telling everyone else how much better you know about it than they do.  So really, if you're going to try to pull high ground on anyone, take a look at your own poor fucking choices here.

3D3N, your own criticism of the project sounds a lot less like a recommendation for improvement than it does a request to conform it to your own palate.

But hey, I don't have a fucking music degree, so feel free to self felate sitting on the bullshit thrones you've constructed for yourselves.

I'd like to also mention that this is Bring & Brag.  It's to show people what you've been working on, and without a specific request for criticism has very rarely been used as such.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

LMNO

For the record, I don't begrudge them that they wished it sounded more like Britney Spears. I just chalk it up to them not being exposed to enough music other than purely computer generated.

Shub-Crackerath

Quote from: Eater of Clowns on January 24, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Shub, your so called technical discussion was a bunch of nit picking about informed stylistic choices, not a simple back and forth about the various aspects of the production.  The fact that you decided to throw your weight around with your education on the subject in an attempt to add credence to your argument supports that you aren't interested in talking about it, but telling everyone else how much better you know about it than they do.  So really, if you're going to try to pull high ground on anyone, take a look at your own poor fucking choices here.

3D3N, your own criticism of the project sounds a lot less like a recommendation for improvement than it does a request to conform it to your own palate.

But hey, I don't have a fucking music degree, so feel free to self felate sitting on the bullshit thrones you've constructed for yourselves.

I'd like to also mention that this is Bring & Brag.  It's to show people what you've been working on, and without a specific request for criticism has very rarely been used as such.

so what makes you assume that when imin the studio tomorrow that i'm not going to test it out?

you guys can be so short sighted

and like i told roger, i NEVER claimed to be an expert. i said i was a n00b.