Italy to ban plastic bags

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Is there an overpopulation problem now? No. Will there be in the future? Maybe. But I think a lot of the ills we are worrying about are actually economic, agricultural, or industrial problems which are exacerbated by a high population.There is no shortage of food - we just have trouble getting it into everybody's mouths. If we could fix things like absurd wealth inequality we would have starvation beat too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

It is possible for a species to exceed its carrying capacity temporarily. Population could then crash.

and

Agricultural capability on Earth expanded in the last quarter of the 20th century. But now there are many projections of a continuation of the decline in world agricultural capability (and hence carrying capacity) which began in the 1990s. Most conspicuously, China's food production is forecast to decline by 37% by the last half of the 21st century, placing a strain on the entire carrying capacity of the world, as China's population could expand to about 1.5 billion people by the year 2050.[11] This reduction in China's agricultural capability (as in other world regions) is largely due to the world water crisis and especially due to mining groundwater beyond sustainable yield, which has been happening in China since the mid-20th century.[12]

and

One result shows that humanity's demand for 1999 exceeded the planet's biocapacity for 1999 by over 20 percent[13

So, yeah, there's an overpopulation problem.  The best estimate I've heard for the current sustainable population is 2 billion.  We are a hair from 7 billion now.

[Adios]

There has subsequently been a decrease in soil erosion caused by over-farming and an overall decline in the use of pesticides and fertilizers.

A decrease from what level?  How bad was it?

I mean, I know Kansas and Nebraska are both deserts now, but besides that.  

But according to that link, your argument is that we're bad people because we're constantly improving our farming techniques, or bad because we aren't utterly perfect?

My arguement was that we are overfarming.  Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Anhydrous ammonia is one of the most widely used around here. Maybe you prefer to return to the days of DDT?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My arguement was that we are overfarming. 

Which you haven't proven.  You've proven that 10 years ago we WERE overfarming slightly, but improving.

Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Oh, Christ.  How, specifically, are GM foods dangerous, and how do we know they're dangerous if we don't understand it?  Do you have death/illness figures from a credible source showing that GM food is killing or injuring people, or even damaging cropland?

[Phox]

There has subsequently been a decrease in soil erosion caused by over-farming and an overall decline in the use of pesticides and fertilizers.

A decrease from what level?  How bad was it?

I mean, I know Kansas and Nebraska are both deserts now, but besides that.  

But according to that link, your argument is that we're bad people because we're constantly improving our farming techniques, or bad because we aren't utterly perfect?

My arguement was that we are overfarming.  Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Anhydrous ammonia is one of the most widely used around here. Maybe you prefer to return to the days of DDT?

I would, but only if it guarantees the extinction of bald eagles.

[Adios]

My arguement was that we are overfarming.

Which you haven't proven.  You've proven that 10 years ago we WERE overfarming slightly, but improving.

Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Oh, Christ.  How, specifically, are GM foods dangerous, and how do we know they're dangerous if we don't understand it?  Do you have death/illness figures from a credible source showing that GM food is killing or injuring people, or even damaging cropland?

Things like wheat growing shorter so less is lost prior to harvest? Or more pest resistant? Or more drought resistant? Or more mildew resistant. Those perverted bastards.

[Adios]

There has subsequently been a decrease in soil erosion caused by over-farming and an overall decline in the use of pesticides and fertilizers.

A decrease from what level?  How bad was it?

I mean, I know Kansas and Nebraska are both deserts now, but besides that.  

But according to that link, your argument is that we're bad people because we're constantly improving our farming techniques, or bad because we aren't utterly perfect?

My arguement was that we are overfarming.  Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Anhydrous ammonia is one of the most widely used around here. Maybe you prefer to return to the days of DDT?

I would, but only if it guarantees the extinction of bald eagles.

BAD PHOXY!

[Phox]

There has subsequently been a decrease in soil erosion caused by over-farming and an overall decline in the use of pesticides and fertilizers.

A decrease from what level?  How bad was it?

I mean, I know Kansas and Nebraska are both deserts now, but besides that.  

But according to that link, your argument is that we're bad people because we're constantly improving our farming techniques, or bad because we aren't utterly perfect?

My arguement was that we are overfarming.  Not that we are bad people. Good for us for improving, unfortunately we improved with some very toxic pesticides and GM crops,  both of which are dangerous in ways that we don't even fully understand (especcially the GM crops)  the ideal solution would be lower intensity farming, but that is not possible while feeding a high population.

Anhydrous ammonia is one of the most widely used around here. Maybe you prefer to return to the days of DDT?

I would, but only if it guarantees the extinction of bald eagles.

BAD PHOXY!

[LMNO]

Can we haz spanking tiem now?

[Adios]

Can we haz spanking tiem now?

Prevert.

[Phox]

 

Can we haz spanking tiem now?

ETA: THAT WAS FUCKING FUCKED.

[Disco Pickle]

completely relevant to population problem direction this thread has taken.

there's 8 videos in the set, that's part one and the rest are easily found on the side bar.  REALLY good lecture basically discussing how humanity's inability to truly grasp the concept of exponential growth is the real problem that will do us in.

the example he uses with the jar is just fucking great at explaining it for non math heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=BF&list=FLKNpJnoWqQVE&index=88

[Adios]

completely relevant to population problem direction this thread has taken.

there's 8 videos in the set, that's part one and the rest are easily found on the side bar.  REALLY good lecture basically discussing how humanity's inability to truly grasp the concept of exponential growth is the real problem that will do us in.

the example he uses with the jar is just fucking great at explaining it for non math heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=BF&list=FLKNpJnoWqQVE&index=88

Over population is self correcting.

[Adios]

So, a noob came here and started reading about plastic bags. At post 461 their head exploded.

[Phox]

So, a noob came here and started reading about plastic bags. At post 461 their head exploded.

Actually, I would say if they made it that far with their head intact, then I doubt that particular post would cause a cerebral meltdown. 

[Cramulus]

So, yeah, there's an overpopulation problem.  The best estimate I've heard for the current sustainable population is 2 billion.  We are a hair from 7 billion now.

good points. I stand corrected.