Virginia Textbook wrong.......

[Cramulus]

another little pet peeve about TX's board of Ed: they insist that African American Vernacular English is not a real dialect (they're wrong), and would not let us sell our books in TX until we removed the AAVE-related instructions.

background: our teacher's edition has an entire section on the quirks specific to various linguistic backgrounds. Native Mandarin speakers, for example, tend to have similar problems in English. We have a section in the book for about 15 different linguistic backgrounds, and AAVE was one of them. That section provides details on this unique English dialect and suggestions for addressing potential learning problems teachers may encounter with speakers of AAVE.

The board of ed's memo to us said something to the effect of "There are no AAVE speakers in our ESL classrooms".

that is SO INCORRECT and KINDA RACIST.


Luckily Texas is so fucked up we publish a texas specific edition and that edition will be the only one missing AAVE instruction.

[AFK]

I mean, it was never really ever in the cards, but Cram is certainly giving me more reasons not to ever move to Texas ever.  At least not until the kiddos are out of school. 

[Phox]

another little pet peeve about TX's board of Ed: they insist that African American Vernacular English is not a real dialect (they're wrong), and would not let us sell our books in TX until we removed the AAVE-related instructions.

background: our teacher's edition has an entire section on the quirks specific to various linguistic backgrounds. Native Mandarin speakers, for example, tend to have similar problems in English. We have a section in the book for about 15 different linguistic backgrounds, and AAVE was one of them. That section provides details on this unique English dialect and suggestions for addressing potential learning problems teachers may encounter with speakers of AAVE.

The board of ed's memo to us said something to the effect of "There are no AAVE speakers in our ESL classrooms".

that is SO INCORRECT and KINDA RACIST.


Luckily Texas is so fucked up we publish a texas specific edition and that edition will be the only one missing AAVE instruction.

hfgvnn bhujyn

[Adios]

Fuck me running.

[Fujikoma]

I knew there was a reason I slept through history class.

[Disco Pickle]

@Cram: BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO SPEAK ANY LANGUAGE!

seriously though, I'm a bit of a shit when it comes to hearing others speak English.  The sound of a preposition ending a declarative or interrogative grates on my nerves.  I have also learned nearly all of my higher level English and Spanish words and grammar from reading it, not hearing it spoke.

My Spanish needs work, but I make sure to learn how to correctly say something when I make a mistake.

   "We affirm the students' right to their own patterns and varieties of language—the dialects of their nurture or whatever dialects in which they find their own identity and style. Language scholars long ago denied that the myth of a standard American dialect has any validity. The claim that any one dialect is unacceptable amounts to an attempt of one social group to exert its dominance over another. Such a claim leads to false advice for speakers and writers and immoral advice for humans. A nation proud of its diverse heritage and its cultural and racial variety will preserve its heritage of dialects. We affirm strongly that teachers must have the experiences and training that will enable them to respect diversity and uphold the right of students to their own language."

that from the Conference on College Composition and Communication from the 70's.

There is a clear distinction between speaking and writing a language that, IMHO, should not be blurred by allowing different dialects, when spoken, to also be considered correct when written.  (From an academic standpoint)

[clarification]
The manner in which you speak at home and with your friends, where grammar rules may be loose and words intentionally miss-pronounced should not be considered the proper written form of the language in academia.

[Cramulus]

There is a clear distinction between speaking and writing a language that, IMHO, should not be blurred by allowing different dialects, when spoken, to also be considered correct when written.  (From an academic standpoint)

[clarification]
The manner in which you speak at home and with your friends, where grammar rules may be loose and words intentionally miss-pronounced should not be considered the proper written form of the language in academia.

to be clear, the AAVE section in our teacher's edition textbooks is not there to instruct people how to speak AAVE. It's there to educate teachers about AAVE so they can better understand it and why its speakers repeatedly make the same mistakes.

Why Texas would want to prevent this is beyond me, especially considering how many black kids are in their remedial english classes.

[Disco Pickle]

There is a clear distinction between speaking and writing a language that, IMHO, should not be blurred by allowing different dialects, when spoken, to also be considered correct when written.  (From an academic standpoint)

[clarification]
The manner in which you speak at home and with your friends, where grammar rules may be loose and words intentionally miss-pronounced should not be considered the proper written form of the language in academia.

to be clear, the AAVE section in our teacher's edition textbooks is not there to instruct people how to speak AAVE. It's there to educate teachers about AAVE so they can better understand it and why its speakers repeatedly make the same mistakes.

Why Texas would want to prevent this is beyond me, especially considering how many black kids are in their remedial english classes.

yeah, I know why it's there, and think it's a great idea.  Had to get into it with my girlfriend about this a few months ago (she's studying to be a teacher) when obvious parental and cultural influence was making her try and convince me that "ebonics" was not a dialect.  I patiently explained to her that she incorrect because it's a dialect of English, not a language in and of itself. 

In her defense, she was up in arms about several of her classmates advocating for actually teaching the dialect, and calling her racist because she didn't agree.  She's also studying to be an ESE teacher and language isn't her best skill by a long shot.

[Phox]

@Cram: BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO SPEAK ANY LANGUAGE!

seriously though, I'm a bit of a shit when it comes to hearing others speak English.  The sound of a preposition ending a declarative or interrogative grates on my nerves.  I have also learned nearly all of my higher level English and Spanish words and grammar from reading it, not hearing it spoke.

My Spanish needs work, but I make sure to learn how to correctly say something when I make a mistake.

   "We affirm the students' right to their own patterns and varieties of language—the dialects of their nurture or whatever dialects in which they find their own identity and style. Language scholars long ago denied that the myth of a standard American dialect has any validity. The claim that any one dialect is unacceptable amounts to an attempt of one social group to exert its dominance over another. Such a claim leads to false advice for speakers and writers and immoral advice for humans. A nation proud of its diverse heritage and its cultural and racial variety will preserve its heritage of dialects. We affirm strongly that teachers must have the experiences and training that will enable them to respect diversity and uphold the right of students to their own language."

that from the Conference on College Composition and Communication from the 70's.

There is a clear distinction between speaking and writing a language that, IMHO, should not be blurred by allowing different dialects, when spoken, to also be considered correct when written.  (From an academic standpoint)

[clarification]
The manner in which you speak at home and with your friends, where grammar rules may be loose and words intentionally miss-pronounced should not be considered the proper written form of the language in academia.

The problem with English is that jackass academics like Strunk and White did a fantastic job of making it fucking RETARDED. All of the bullshit you learn about split infinitives, dangling participles, avoiding the passive voice, and so on is arbitrary and made up. And that's the standard by which academic writing is set. Which to you, sounds more correct: "I do not have anything fucking to do" or "I do not have anything to fucking do"?

There shouldn't be this artificial standard that people are held to in their speaking and writing that is nothing but a combination of rules made up by academics for arbitrary reasons to seem more educated and rules made up by aristocrats for arbitrary reasons to seem more educated, especially when common usage dictates language and 90% of the "proper" grammar is ignored in common usage. [/rant]

[Fujikoma]

I always thought of language as more of an art than a science.