Sarah Palin and the Crosshairs

[hooplala]

I can't find a thread on it... I assume you have all heard about this already.  Thoughts?

Is it incitement?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

It's mentioned in the Giffords thread

ETA:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=27970.msg991208#msg991208

[LMNO]

No, that's just a convenient graphic.

Whoever brought up "Second Amendment Solutions" however... that's a bit closer to it.

[AFK]

Legally?  I don't think so.  Even if they find that he visited the site, I don't think they could get her for that.  It would be like the families who sued Ozzy Osborune for causing their kid's suicide because he heard the song "Suicide Solution".  

Though I did here on the radio some legislator wants to introduce legislation to make threatening a person with symbols illegal.  

Legal issues aside, it's obviously pretty classless what she did when she came up with that site with the cross hairs.  But, well, it's Palin.  This is really where America should drop her like a bad habit.  Whether that site is linked to this assassination or not, it just looks plain ugly.  

And it looks like they took that site down pretty quick after the news broke.  

[Cain]

It's Palin being a moron, so nothing new, to be perfectly honest.  I don't think it counts as incitement, legally or morally...that said, this is a little more worrying.

As were the death threats made against the Federal judge who was also killed that day.  I wonder in fact if he was not the prime target, and Gifford's a secondary consideration, especially since the judge is dead and Giffords isn't.  Yet.

[AFK]

No, that's just a convenient graphic.

Whoever brought up "Second Amendment Solutions" however... that's a bit closer to it.

That was Sharron Angle.  I also heard in the reporting that the Republican Gifford's ran against in this last election held some event at a firing range.  The basic premise is that they were getting ready to "take out" Giffords.  I bet that guy feels like a pile of shit today.  Or, at least he should.  

[AFK]

It's Palin being a moron, so nothing new, to be perfectly honest.  I don't think it counts as incitement, legally or morally...that said, this is a little more worrying.

As were the death threats made against the Federal judge who was also killed that day.  I wonder in fact if he was not the prime target, and Gifford's a secondary consideration, especially since the judge is dead and Giffords isn't.  Yet.

No, the reporting is that the gunman waited in line with the other constituents and waited until it was his turn to talk to Giffords to pull out the gun and start shooting.  The judge wasn't scheduled to be there.  He just happened to show up because he wanted to say hello to Giffords. 

[Cain]

Oh, OK.

I'll be honest, I haven't read anything on this since Saturday night, since I also have barely slept since then.  I just found it interesting that the Judge who had previous death threats against him was dead, and the Congresscreature wasn't, yet it was assumed she was the primary target.

However, with that information, it seems safe to assume she was in fact the primary target then.

[Jenne]

*I* was the one who mentioned Angle's imbecilic remark about 2nd Amendment solutions--and I stole that from the ABC bobblehead show (which, by the way, Christiane Amanpour has brought a certain gravitas and "real-news" feel to) "This Week" from Sunday.

I liked the correlation, even if it might not be a direct causation.  I agree with the sentiment that the GOP seems to engender this extreme reaction that's pooh-poohed by their establishment but has real-life consequences.  Not to say the extreme Left doesn't have its issues, too, but the hype was thick and deep in Tea Bagger Land last Fall.  This latest incident may or may NOT be a direct result.  Stands to reason that sites like Palin's "Take Out the 20" or whatever the fuck it was with marksman bullseyes on it and the phrase "Second Amendment Solution" couldn't have HELPED calm people down.

[Cain]

The extreme left in America are only really a danger to themselves.  And they have hardly the same kind of mainstream appeal as the radical right either.  The false equivocation between the two by the talking heads is amusing though....I mean, when was the last time a major bombing or assassination was carried out by a left wing individual or group in America?  The Unabomber?  And even that I'd question...

[AFK]

Yeah, I think it will be difficult to find a one-to-one correlation, short of this guy saying "Palin made me do it!".  But I think it is hard to not see how stuff like the cross-hairs graphic, talk about 2nd Amendment remedies, the uncivil discourse at town halls, the "Reload" talk, the death panel talk, the socialist/birther stuff.....all this shit goes through the echo chamber and I think quickly becomes a part of the environment and culture.  

Particularily if we take into account that this kid, was a kid, only 22.  This shit has been going on for the better part of 2 or 3 years.  It would be easy to see how this kind of rhetoric can normalize certain ideas in a young, disturbed adult.  

[LMNO]

Of course, the vast majority of pundits and politicians who frame things in terms of war, attacks, battles, fights, etc. don't intend to be taken literally.  They are employing figures of speech to stress the percived importance of the issues.

It was almost a certainty, however, that some lunatic would hear it in a literal sense, not a figurative one, and act on it.

So, while I can't blame the GOP for directly inciting violence, they did create an atmosphere that could have amplified motivation in the crazies.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The extreme left in America are only really a danger to themselves.  And they have hardly the same kind of mainstream appeal as the radical right either.  The false equivocation between the two by the talking heads is amusing though....I mean, when was the last time a major bombing or assassination was carried out by a left wing individual or group in America?  The Unabomber?  And even that I'd question...

Even with him, I think that it was more that he was anti-technology than anything else.

[Jenne]

Exactly.  You all said what I was thinking.  Just more elegantly.

[Cain]

The extreme left in America are only really a danger to themselves.  And they have hardly the same kind of mainstream appeal as the radical right either.  The false equivocation between the two by the talking heads is amusing though....I mean, when was the last time a major bombing or assassination was carried out by a left wing individual or group in America?  The Unabomber?  And even that I'd question...

Even with him, I think that it was more that he was anti-technology than anything else.

Yeah.  I think there were some views which could be considered anarcho-primitivist...but then you get into the debate about right and left anarchy, which is a mess in and of itself.

Oh, it does turn out some Earth Liberation Army twunts firebombed a couple of peoples houses 2008, and some kid tried to try a "Project Mayhem" style uprising against the corporations last year...but they do stand out compared to the numerous radical right and Islamist terrorist attacks in the same time frame.