Unlimited MENA Revolt Thread

[Cain]

Looks like Islamist militants let the mob flush the Ambassador from the building, then used rockets or some kind of grenades, depending on who you read, kill them while they were enroute to the safe house, still in the car.  Obviously, your average angry mob does not have access to that kind of firepower, not even in Libya. 

Who the hell is meant to be in charge of security in that city?  I know the Libyan government would have trouble fielding more than a couple of thousand men without begging to some Islamist militant outfit or another for help, but seriously, you'd think at the very least, the US Ambassador would be a pretty high priority for protection.  That's why this appears to be some kind of terrorist attack, and not just an outraged mob who went too far. 

LMNO, I suspect the Ambassador's general travel plans were publically known.  As for the film...incidental.  It helped move matters along, but even without it, I suspect he would have been a target.  Libyan militants fought in large numbers in Iraq, it should be remembered.  After Iraqi militants, they made up the single largest nationality there, and many of those, upon re-entering Libya, were arrested and tortured by the Gaddafi regime.  They have no reason to love the US, and consider the downfall of the regime in Libya to have more to do with their efforts than the pathetic NATO campaign.

[Verbal Mike]

Or, it was like, "Hey Sam*, check out this YouTube video some cracker in the US posted.  If we leak it, that'll give us cover."

*His name could have been Sam, or it could have been Omar, or it could have been Sally.  Who's to say?

Ironically, the guy who made the movie's name is Sam.
(Mentioned here, a few paragraphs from the bottom.)

[LMNO]

Once again, Cain is infallible. CNN just announced someone said the attack was "planned".

Of course, maybe saying that benefits them? "It was Turrurizt" rather than "we dun pissed off th' moozlimz agin."

Whaddaya think? Is it better politically to say the ambassador was whacked rather than killed in a riot?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Once again, Cain is infallible. CNN just announced someone said the attack was "planned".

Of course, maybe saying that benefits them? "It was Turrurizt" rather than "we dun pissed off th' moozlimz agin."

Whaddaya think? Is it better politically to say the ambassador was whacked rather than killed in a riot?

I'd guess Romney would prefer the "ambassador was whacked" story, if only so he could pounce on Obama about failing to protect all Americans from terrorists, or something. Obama probably doesn't benefit either way. I do think it's weird that Romney is flinging shit about the State Department's response along the lines of "It's too bad we pissed off some nutjobs," but it's more of the same old thing Republicans always bitch about (America can do no wrong, it's always somebody else who started it, etc. etc.). Anyway I'd expect the line of attack to be directed more at the lack of security and preparedness in an effort to chip away at Obama's foreign policy credibility.

[Cain]

And....just a day late, Foreign Affairs is having a "Libya Special" tomorrow.

Mostly reprints, but hopefully in conjunction with todays events, and being easily accessible in one place, people will pay attention to what is quickly becoming Afghanistan-on-the-Med.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

I cant find the full version anywhere but this is the video that most people saw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qmodVun16Q4

What gets me is the really weird dubbing at inappropriate times, a lot of it seems to be dubbing in Islamic stuff. Just look at 6:34. And if the film really is made by a Christian film company why is there scene where Muhhamed buries his face between his wifes legs? It almost seems like a scene from a really bad porn film.

[Cain]

And its creator has gone into hiding.

Incidentally, even the Israeli Foreign Ministry has condemned the film and disassociated itself from the creator(s).

And Romney has really screwed up. Senior Republicans are referring to this as his "Lehman moment".  If nothing else, his comments show the utter shamelessness and opportunism that makes up Mitt Romney's ambitions.  The guy's not even cold in the ground and Romney is trying to parade his corpse around as proof of Obama's inability to rule over the foreign savages.

And that it's not just the usual Dem hacks saying that is why it is important.

[LMNO]

I get that Mitt's first comment was before the killing, but the fact that he kept going really underscores his complete inability to understand reality, even tangentially.

[Cain]

His incentives are driven by internal party politics, which no longer match up too well with "getting elected President" politics.

Even before this, voters from across the spectrum felt Mitt Romney was weak on foreign policy knowledge and skill.  Now, this doesn't matter too much in and of itself, as foreign policy is not a top voting concern for the public.  However, expertise at foreign policy does fit the idea of what a President should be like, and showing a lack of knowledge concerning it has a secondary effect of undermining his overall qualifications for looking like a President.

In many people's eyes, this will confirm Romney's lack of ability and judgement.

[Cain]

Al-Qaeda? I know, I know, AQ are responsible for everything from SARS to the assassination of George Bush's cat, but this is rather suggestive timing:

http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-leader-zawahiri-confirms-death-abu-yahya-040815471.html

Essentially, that's Zawahiri, calling on Libyans to take revenge for the death of Abu Yahya al-Libi.  The video was released on Monday.

[Cain]

Well, shit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/sep/13/libya-attack-us-ambassador-aftermath-live

The US Embassy in Yemen was stormed by protestors, though only temporarily.

Morocco, Sudan and Tunisia are also experiencing large protests.  The usual Iranian rent-a-mob are protesting outside the Swiss Embassy in Tehran (since the Swiss represent US interests in the country).  Hamid Karzai has convinced himself that Afghanistan will collapse if he goes to a summit in Norway, though it's probably more that Karzai hates being lectured at about silly things like "fair elections" and "human rights" by NATO.  Pakistan is expecting protests later today, an Iraqi militia has threatened US interests in the country and there are calls for the film-makers to be punished in Bangladesh, by protestors there.

[Cain]

Interesting to see that so few westen so-called "liberals" believe Muslims have any agency at all.  No, Muslims are totally not responsible for their own actions in regards to a film.  The film made them do it, man, they had no choice.

On the other hand, it's interesting to note western conservatives believe that there is no culpability at all on the behalf of "Sam Bacile".  Because, of course, there are no recent historical examples of Muslims reacting badly to the Prophet being called a terrorist paedophile rapist.  How was anyone to know?

More seriously, let's look at this "Sam Bacile".  He claims to be an Israeli Jew, with the backing and funding of other Israeli Jews.  Yet the film was made in America.  Attempts to contact Bacile at his American phone number lead to Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, who according to Federal documents uses the aliases of  Nicola Bacily and Erwin Salameh, among others.  Nakoula has previous fraud convictions.

The film also had the heavy involvement of Steve Klein, a Christian activist heavily involved in the anti-Islamist scene, who often stages protests outside of mosques and schools, and has fantasies about uncovering California based Al-Qaeda cells.  Klein is also involved with the Christian Guardians, who have a compound in central California where they undertake "Biblical Warfare training".  Klein also has links to the "counterjihadist movement", in particular Pam Geller and Robert Spencer.

So, it looks strongly like Innocence of the Muslims was purposefully designed to get both Muslims and Jews embroiled in fighting each other (hence the false claim about the film maker's origins) by Christian extremists who care little for either.

[Cain]

Looks like the Stiftung Leo Strauss agrees with me, that the film was mostly incidental to the Benghazi assassination:

Contrary to many media outlets, we're not convinced the infamous anti-Mohammed YouTube video proximately caused the deaths and riots. We believe local politics and intrigues played the key roles and the video used as an excuse or cover; blaming a video helps create an easily understandable overarching explanatory narrative. Comforting but unhelpful.

For example, in Cairo a handful of long-standing militant Islamists protesting outside of the embassy for months took advantage of momentary confusion to climb the embassy walls and plant their black flag. The next day, the Egyptian government eventually restored order. That delay raises worrying signals about the new Egyptian government's intent.

In Benghazi it increasingly looks like an armed faction opposed to liberal democratic process pre-planned a coordinated guerrilla assault with mortars, RPGs and artillery fire. That now famous YouTube video clip mocking Mohammed at most served as cover and distraction. Attackers knew routines and consulate layout. Contrary to Neocon claims Libyans dragged deceased Americans through the streets, U.S. officials report 10 Libyans died defending the consulate and others hand carried the U.S victims to the hospital.

That said, I worry that linking the film with the assassination will increase the interest in the film, while associating it with that kind of violence and so could help promote similar attempts in other countries.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Muslim extremists are a dangerous kind of retarded.

Calling them on it is invoking a retard shitstorm.

Not calling them on it is submission to tyranny.

What to do?

On one hand censorship is wrong. I don't think it's ever the right thing to do?

On the other hand should you just stand by and do nothing while one faction of religious retards annoys another faction of religious retards to the point where proper people get killed over it?

My stance on book burning is wavering. It always does when I think about the bible or the koran

[Faust]

Muslim extremists are a dangerous kind of retarded.

Calling them on it is invoking a retard shitstorm.

Not calling them on it is submission to tyranny.

What to do?

On one hand censorship is wrong. I don't think it's ever the right thing to do?

On the other hand should you just stand by and do nothing while one faction of religious retards annoys another faction of religious retards to the point where proper people get killed over it?

My stance on book burning is wavering. It always does when I think about the bible or the koran

It's a symbolic gesture of wilful ignorance. For example Mien Kampff written by a deluded maniac who through political means caused huge atrocities, there is a lot to be learned from that. Even if you despise them the Koran and bible are useful. For instance The Koran has some of the only documented information on Alexander the Greats escapades into the east.