CRAMULUS

[East Coast Hustle]

I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.

Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.

I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com?

Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....

Yeah, actually I just didn't think it was my place to bring up the thing between Cram and Roger (which I also did not know the full extent of until now), so I gave a secondary reason for being a dick. Sue me.

[Triple Zero]

Roger, you know what is a little bizarre? If I tell you that I absolutely believe your motives are clean. They always are, always have been. I stuck up for Cramulus when you say he's shitting behind your back cause I know him and he doesn't believe that, and I stick up for you because I know you're a good guy, who will do the right thing when it really matters. And of course you're not a personality cult.

I know that, rationally. But that doesn't mean that somebody that I trust can't sometimes say something that IMO is really out of line and scares the shit out of me. And that's what I saw and called out upon.

What I saw at that moment was this.

I saw myself, and no matter how much I did for this board and its community, I could be in the exact same spot, if I ever left, and stuck my head in for a few posts and get publicly derided like that.

Because it's one thing if you were just having an unresolved beef with Cram, but I saw him sticking in his head for just a few posts and you made it look like whole PD has a reason to have a beef with him ("we're all boring!").

If I ever leave during an unresolved argument with one person, if I ever come back, even for a short time, I want to still have the argument with that one person, and not with the entire board.

And I could have explained that better the first time around. But that's what it felt like, hit me right in the gut.

As I said, I know I can trust you, but you know, even people that you trust can sometimes say shit that scares the piss out of you.





And about this screenshot, like Telarus, I'm having a really hard time believing Cramulus actually said that.

So you PMed him, and you say if he'd deny it, it would be okay. But he didn't reply. That's because he's sick and tired of arguing and decided he prefers not to get involved anymore even if it means you think he said horrible things he doesn't actually believe. I'm not going to defend that approach BTW, it's not something I would choose.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm also kind of wondering what kind of shit-stirring high-school-girl douche would send you such a screenshot. Considering that it could have been taken out of context, or just Cram blowing off steam in a way he didn't really mean, in a place he felt like it was safe to do so. Like, I can go to my friends and be all "Waaaaaaahhhhhh Mr. Language is such an asshole, I give and give and he doesn't appreciate it, he's a taker, I feel like he's using me" and yet, when all's said and done, I'm just having a private breakdown and what I would really say in my role as an adult is something completely different, and if someone were to screenshot my venting and send it to him, it could only be because they were trying to stir up trouble.

[Eater of Clowns]

THIS WHOLE THING MAKES EOC A SAD.

CRAM IS GOOD.  ROGER IS GOOD.  PD IS GOOD.

WHY ARE NOT FRIENDS? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Roger, you know what is a little bizarre? If I tell you that I absolutely believe your motives are clean. They always are, always have been. I stuck up for Cramulus when you say he's shitting behind your back cause I know him and he doesn't believe that, and I stick up for you because I know you're a good guy, who will do the right thing when it really matters. And of course you're not a personality cult.

I know that, rationally. But that doesn't mean that somebody that I trust can't sometimes say something that IMO is really out of line and scares the shit out of me. And that's what I saw and called out upon.

What I saw at that moment was this.

I saw myself, and no matter how much I did for this board and its community, I could be in the exact same spot, if I ever left, and stuck my head in for a few posts and get publicly derided like that.

Because it's one thing if you were just having an unresolved beef with Cram, but I saw him sticking in his head for just a few posts and you made it look like whole PD has a reason to have a beef with him ("we're all boring!").

If I ever leave during an unresolved argument with one person, if I ever come back, even for a short time, I want to still have the argument with that one person, and not with the entire board.

And I could have explained that better the first time around. But that's what it felt like, hit me right in the gut.

As I said, I know I can trust you, but you know, even people that you trust can sometimes say shit that scares the piss out of you.





And about this screenshot, like Telarus, I'm having a really hard time believing Cramulus actually said that.

So you PMed him, and you say if he'd deny it, it would be okay. But he didn't reply. That's because he's sick and tired of arguing and decided he prefers not to get involved anymore even if it means you think he said horrible things he doesn't actually believe. I'm not going to defend that approach BTW, it's not something I would choose.

Well, it seems that you've made up your mind.

Good day.

TGRR,
Leader of bad people.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm also kind of wondering what kind of shit-stirring high-school-girl douche would send you such a screenshot. Considering that it could have been taken out of context, or just Cram blowing off steam in a way he didn't really mean, in a place he felt like it was safe to do so. Like, I can go to my friends and be all "Waaaaaaahhhhhh Mr. Language is such an asshole, I give and give and he doesn't appreciate it, he's a taker, I feel like he's using me" and yet, when all's said and done, I'm just having a private breakdown and what I would really say in my role as an adult is something completely different, and if someone were to screenshot my venting and send it to him, it could only be because they were trying to stir up trouble.

That's entirely possible...No, LIKELY, given the person involved.  It's also why I PM'd Cram, who chose not to respond, as he has chosen not to respond to any sort of PM he's ever been sent by me.  I am told this is also my fault, but let's get past that...I don't particularly care for the person that sent it, nor would I believe this person over Cram, if Cram had a reasonable explanation, etc.

As far as other people saying shit about him, I cannot control that, no matter what some people here believe.  It doesn't seem to have occurred to folks that he might have pissed off more people than just mean old Roger.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I find it hard to believe that Cram typed the words "Discordia would be better off without Roger" or the similar. Considering he knows that Discordia is more than just PD. I also believe that he may have, out of frustration or monkey-emotions. I have no evidence either way. Fuck, I've said worse to my personal friends on occasion, before apologizing.

Cram has told me that 'taking a break' from PD wasn't about Roger, just about his personal situation and day-to-day stress levels building up IRL.

I have no clue what's going down currently. Hopefully Cram and Rog can communicate without any interference and clear this up, so I'll just butt the fuck out after this post until shit settles.

1.  I don't have a hard time believing that.  Cram has disapproved of me for a very, very long time, and has told me so on several occasions.

2.  Given the source, though, I was more than willing to give Cram the benefit of the doubt.  So I asked him about it, in PM.  I was not considered worthy of an answer.

3.  I want to make this PERFECTLY FUCKING CLEAR:  I have not organized some "welcoming party" for Cram.  I chose to act like an ass when he returned, in my time-honored fashion, same as I would have greeted him if he'd been gone a day, and the same as I'll greet Fomentor when he eventually returns...But I did so on my own.  Regardless of what anyone may think, Cram might have pissed off more than just Roger.

4.  I also want to make THIS perfectly clear, and I'm not going to say it ever again:  This isn't about Cram's flounce, in the slightest.  If you or anyone else can't get that through your heads, then I really don't know what to say.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was pretty sure I remembered Cram making a post in the Discordian Facebook group, but I'll accept that I could be wrong and/or have gotten my beefs mixed up.

Even without that point, I stand by the rest of my post.

I dunno, I looked through both of his facebook accounts and the Discordian group and see nothing like it. So the rest of your point was he had a fight with Roger and was an asshole? Doesn't that describe all but 23% of PD.com?

Maybe there's something else I'm missing, but from my perspective, it seems pretty shitty and kinda disturbing. I'm pretty sure I've been far more of an asshole than Cram ever has....

Yeah, actually I just didn't think it was my place to bring up the thing between Cram and Roger (which I also did not know the full extent of until now), so I gave a secondary reason for being a dick. Sue me.

I am told, it seems, that me reacting to Cram saying he got bored means that I have cast a magickual spell on the board.

Or words to that effect.

I'm done arguing this.  Minds have been made up, even though the argument (at least my argument) has nothing to do with the flounce.  Apparently, if you or I or anyone else gets mad at Cram for any reason, we're cultists or cult leaders.

There's some HILARIOUS fucking irony there, but I'll leave it for people who care.

[Triple Zero]

That's entirely possible...No, LIKELY, given the person involved.  It's also why I PM'd Cram, who chose not to respond, as he has chosen not to respond to any sort of PM he's ever been sent by me.  I am told this is also my fault, but let's get past that...I don't particularly care for the person that sent it, nor would I believe this person over Cram, if Cram had a reasonable explanation, etc.

As far as other people saying shit about him, I cannot control that, no matter what some people here believe.  It doesn't seem to have occurred to folks that he might have pissed off more people than just mean old Roger.

You're right about that BTW. At first I did address ECH and Khara as well, but later on only you. That wasn't fair.

As for Cram not replying, I said I won't defend that. And giving it some more thought, that does indeed also make it his problem.

I want to make this PERFECTLY FUCKING CLEAR:  I have not organized some "welcoming party" for Cram.

Yes I realize that now. I wasn't aware of all the facts, thought I saw something that worried me and made a kneejerk response and freaked out, sorry about that.


I still don't believe he thinks Discordia would be better off without you, though. And I would like to ask you to consider that, even if he didn't respond to your PM. But that's just my opinion.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I still don't believe he thinks Discordia would be better off without you, though. And I would like to ask you to consider that, even if he didn't respond to your PM. But that's just my opinion.

Oh, I have considered it.  I've said so.  In fact, if you look back a page or two, if Cram straight up tells me that he DIDN'T say that, then I will believe him, apologize to him, and do HORRIBLE shit to the person that sent me the screenshot...As they can be doctored and Cram is honest in most things.

Problem is, I don't think he will, because he is honest in most things, and because given our past, that is something Cram would be likely to say about me. 

I used to like Cram, I used to admire him a great deal, in fact.  But after enough snubs, after being told for years that I'm doing it wrong and cutting down the potential size of PD by being a prick, and that I'm too mean to noobs (on the same day he asked me to take down a thread because it might encourage poptard)...After a while, well, you just get to the point where you can't fucking stand a guy, you know?

Funny thing is, it ain't just him.  His loyalists/friends lined up to jump on mine and ECH's (and a few others) heads for daring to call him a prick, and stating reasons that we never said.  And then *I* get called a cult leader/a Scientologist, whatever.  Now, that's funny on a level that would be infuriating as well, if I still gave a shit.

But I don't.  I've been the automatic bad guy one time too often, and to anyone who knee-jerked me as a the bad guy...Well, what can I say?  WTF, you know?  Okay, so I'm the universal bad guy.  Let me know when to laugh menacingly, and when it's time to deliver the bad guy soliloquay.  I shall endeavor to be the utter and complete shit that most of you believe me to be.  If, you know, I'm not busy doing something.

Or Kill Me.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Really have no idea what is going on here, but I hope that Cram comes back. I like him and his content, even if I don't agree with some of it.

[East Coast Hustle]

The idea of anyone being made out to be an aspiring cult leader with an ego the size of Kazakhstan because of something they said or did to fucking Cramulus fills me with rageful laughter.

I mean, there's your big shiny kettle, right there.

And whether or not he actually said what was supposedly in whatever screenshots were sent to Roger, I can goddamn guaran-fucking-tee that he has NO compunction at all about going around behind Roger's back trying to start trouble and get Roger "voted off the island", as it were.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Fuck, it's like the cult of Scientology here. So Cramulus leaves because he got different priorities and got bored with this board. Rog, Khara and ECH takes this VERY personal, despite it's his fucking own choice, regardless of how many great wonderful and interesting threads we produce here.

Do not ever fucking presume to speak for how I think or feel.  I want to be very clear on this.  I made one fucking post.  I suggested he might want to read some of the awesome stuff we had going.  

As for the rest, I was here when Cram pulled his I'm taking my toys and going to a new sandbox bullshit. 

However, my issues with Cram go back much farther than that and if I want to be a fucking bitch I fucking will. I don't forget shit, I may be nice, but you jump all over me and think I'm going to let it go without a fucking apology, not going to happen. I'm a total cunt like that. You want to be Cram's mommy and come jump my ass go right ahead, I'll tell you the same thing I would tell him.  Fuck you, you can kiss my ass!

[LMNO]

You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was.  I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am thinking there's been a lot of shit I was blissfully unaware of.