CRAMULUS

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

OK, I'm just going to throw this out there for consideration.  I live in a black neighborhood.  All of my neighbors are black.  They called the cops on me for doing my filthy pagan shit on Halloween.  They think I'm evil and going to hell and many have made numerous attempts to help me find the lord since the incident.

My experience is that many (I hesitate to say most) black people have been raised in the christian church.  Now this is not your pope loving, rosary saying catholic church, nor is it a typical episcopal, lutheran and these days methodist churches.  They go to hellfire and brimstone baptist or some type of pentacostal church.  I see the biggest gang bangers in my neighborhood in their best every Sunday morning with their mother/grandmother on the way to church.

Now these churches portray us as the devil.  

I don't see the low number of black Discordians as having anything to do with racism as much as Discordia, Sub-Genius, and (I know, I know) paganism is against almost everything they have been raised to believe.  

[Faust]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

Point.

So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?

Why should we? People come to us when they have an interest in the source material. I mean tell your friends of course we need more people, but beyond that I don't see any need to go out of your way to inform people of what we are and what we do.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I still don't get the argument.  Nigel, could you elaborate?

Faust nailed it. The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton; think of it as a metaphor for unconscious privilege. Actual skin color is irrelevant. What's happening is that people are broke and busy. The middle class is dwindling fast, and the privilege to spend time being all thinky on internet forums is dwindling with it.

[pH]

Could it be that people in tough situations simply don't discuss these ideas for lack of time?  I mean working class people having pints together have surely always eventually gotten around to "deep" (for lack of a better word) topics, haven't they?

Of what they encounter every day. We are fringe, often dismissed immediately as nonsense and unheard of for most. Better access to information = better chance of them coming through here.

Point.

So do we try to give better access to information then, or a better understanding of the fringe?

Why should we? People come to us when they have an interest in the source material. I mean tell your friends of course we need more people, but beyond that I don't see any need to go out of your way to inform people of what we are and what we do.

So it seems like the thing to do is tell friends, and let GASMs reel in anyone else?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Beyond that, not enough info to make a statement about such a ratio of race at PD.  Even less so for Discordia as a whole.

I think that this board has a fair number of non-whites, actually, as internet forums go.

[hooplala]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

[navkat]

Been here a few years, and I think the same as Luna.  I actually take for granted that nobody seems to care.

I don't see that there's an obligation.

I also think that we'd have to change our core philosophy and goals, and this gives me the jimjams.  I can feel the "limosine liberal" approach, if you know what I mean.

Hell, it's pretty insulting of me to imply that we have solutions for them, when we don't even have solutions for ourselves.  If they want to come, they're welcome.  Johnny, Nigel, Verthaine, and several others came.

I look at it this way...We kept Nigel and Johnny, and we lost Cowass and Zurtok.  We aren't perfect, but we're at least on the right track.  I can't see any benefit to turning into a pack of patronizing yippies, when what we CAN do is try to stymie the rising tide of racism that exists.

We are what we are.

THIS.

Navkat:  Maybe we aren't likeable period.

I think we're likeable.

I also think we make much ado about truths that most people keep to themselves because they don't feel the need to advertise and commune about the fact that it's all a crock of absurdly funny shit.

At the same time we are not intended for mass production or mass consumption.

Exactamundo.

[navkat]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

[Faust]

Beyond that, not enough info to make a statement about such a ratio of race at PD.  Even less so for Discordia as a whole.

I think that this board has a fair number of non-whites, actually, as internet forums go.

We have an above average number women to men forum wise, not sure if the same holds true for non-whites but i wouldn't be surprised if that was also the case.

[Luna]

Do a push with posters.

Not just one city...  EVERYBODY.  Pick a few posters, or use ONE... and stick the damn thing up all over the country, and see who bites.

Hell, stick something on it to Google that'll bring people here, and see how many times it gets used to find the joint.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

I'm playing with it.

I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.

[hooplala]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

How so?  How are middle class black people exempt?

I'm not trying to say that I don't think white people have had it good for a long time, but I take issue with the attempt to make me feel guilty over an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to.  So yes, the accusation (if that is a fair word to use) makes me uncomfortable.  I suppose this is something I will need to put a lot more thought into.

[hooplala]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

I'm playing with it.

I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.

Ah I see... ok, I can get that.  Yes, it does upset the fuck out of me, I *think* for the reason I stated above.  

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

I'm playing with it.

I've been told that I am "culturally white", which pissed me off, because what the hell does that even mean? But I decided I'd run with it a little, and what I've found is that it seriously upsets the fuck out of white people. I find that fascinating, and well worth exploring.

I am "culturally Roger".

ETA:  I think "culturally White" means that you aren't behaving as people expect you to behave.  They don't have a convenient label, so they just pasted that one on and hoped it would stick.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The word "white", as I have already explained a few times, is just a hotbutton

Then why use it, if it's not the actual point?  Why not just say "middle class"?

I'm not trying to start anything, it's an honest question.

Because "white" is technically accurate...not our fault if it makes people uncomfortable.

There is this, too.

In fact, I almost feel like we might have a sacred duty to make people uncomfortable. Or at least, examine some reasons why it's such a hot button.