CRAMULUS

[Phox]

To give my assessment of Nigel's original point, as I understand it, the term "white" does not have anything to do with skin color, but rather cultural privilege. So by referring to us all as "bored middle-class white people" she is saying that we have the money and cultural privilege to fritter away time on Discordia.

[Fredfredly ⊂(◉‿◉)つ]

i was brought here by a bored middle class chinese person 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The US is teeming with black middle-aged women poet-witches. I shit you not, it's a "thing".

As far as black Americans and religion, here:
http://www.religionlink.com/tip_070108.php

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

To give my assessment of Nigel's original point, as I understand it, the term "white" does not have anything to do with skin color, but rather cultural privilege. So by referring to us all as "bored middle-class white people" she is saying that we have the money and cultural privilege to fritter away time on Discordia.

Yes, that was my original point. I even explained its origins; why I started playing around with the idea of race as a condition of privilege in the first place.

Race is interesting, partly because it's so fluid and difficult to define. Like gender it's a social construct, and like gender it's really fucking hard to pin down and discussing it makes people really uncomfortable.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So you're saying Nina Simone isn't Turkish?

Nina Simone is her own ethnic group.

[Vaud]

Most sociologists seem to agree that "race" is a sociocultural construct, rather than a biological one.  In other words, it doesn't have to do with color.  Initially, I was skeptical of this argument, as I do think that sociologists tend to almost intentionally overlook biology.  After doing a bit of research on this argument, however, from a genetic/biological basis, I found that I'm inclined to agree.  There is very little overlap between skin pigmentation (a biological adaptation) and racial designation.  A person can look white to me, yet consider themselves black, and yet move to another region and be considered black by the local majority, or maybe yet still black.  This can be pretty bothersome when the geographically based cultural designation differs from the individual's own assessment, and it happens in many places.  

As with gender designation, I feel that ultimately it should be up to the individual.  Perhaps even moreso with race, as there is really no significant correlation between genetic make-up and human racial classifications.

[Salty]

Most sociologists seem to agree that "race" is a sociocultural construct

Well they would have to wouldn't they, that's sort of their bread and butter.  

While there are many sociocultural aspects of race and gender designation, most of those lead directly to misconceptions as most sociocultures are full of dumbasses. I don't see why constructs should have any more sway in these matters than meaty biology. ETA: I think they should have less sway.

I mean, obviously the sociocultural factors are important and have direct impact on our everyday lives, but they're also usually stupid and counter-productive. As GA said, you have to keep that white lab coat on, and keep it clean.

[Triple Zero]

Most sociologists seem to agree that your face is a sociocultural construct

How I read this.

[Salty]

That's definitely what I was shooting for.

[Vaud]

I mean, obviously the sociocultural factors are important and have direct impact on our everyday lives, but they're also usually stupid and counter-productive. As GA said, you have to keep that white lab coat on, and keep it clean.

I never take it off.  Problem is, there's no biological basis for race; the point of my post.

[Salty]

How so? How is darker skin as a result of countless generations spent in a sunny climate or lighter skin from less sun exposure not biological?

Or Native American inability to process alcohol the way Europeans do?

How do sociocultural constructs mitigate the biological factors?

[Salty]

Or are you trying to say that there is no inherent overriding unstoppable powerhouse of genetic basis for race?

[Vaud]

What I'm saying is, genetic correlations do not, for the most part, line up at all with social designations.  There is some small amount of genetic tracing toward shit like red hair, but the gradient of skin pigmentation typically correlated with cultural racial designations is not reasonably connected with genetic grouping.. at least as far as I can tell.

[Requia ☣]

Using genetic grouping also leads to things that are, from a social standpoint, less than sane, IE: a Pakistani is Caucasian, but from a social standpoint lumping them in with a European Caucasian doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Freeky]

I have noticed, however, that it is starting to not really matter what your lineage is, because I can't tell these fuckers apart half the time.

In other words, I personally don't see what matters except that my eye registers a darker skin tone when it's obvious (sometimes not even then), so maybe Nigel and people agreeing with that point of view have a point and skin tone doesn't really play a factor in race.  In fact, if you look at it from the bottom up (DNA to start with), there really is no such thing as race (except for sherpas, maybe), and it's all moot at this point, because every single one of us posting here has ridiculously good luck to have the internet and food and so on.