CRAMULUS

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was.  I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.

Cram was, in my opinion, my opposite pole in every way.  The board is lacking something with him gone¹.  But if you're going to advance a paradigm of Discordia - or anything else, really - you've got to be prepared to argue your position.  By "argue", I don't necessarily mean shit-flinging, of course.


¹ Despite my very real anger with Cram, and my new-found distaste for him, he DID contribute.  I don't think too many people would disagree with that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I am thinking there's been a lot of shit I was blissfully unaware of.

Yeah, well, I wish I had some of that bliss.

But the fact is, I very much valued Cram's opinion, particularly with regard to rants or ideas I set forward.  Then I noticed that he either didn't read it, or disapproved of it simply because I wrote it (He was more than happy to USE some of the same ideas he had earlier turned his nose up at, after all.).  Then I found out that, in his mind, I was "the weakest link", and should probably go fuck off into the desert and die quietly, at least in a metaphorical sense.

So, yeah, not wild about the guy.  I like a lot of his ideas, and I think he should post here (I am not going to pull a Lauren and say - as she said to me - "I like your stuff, but I think you should post it here without actually hanging around", etc.)...But that doesn't mean I have to like him.  Outside of this thread, I have no intention of trash-talking him or monstering him or anything.

Should he return, I will simply ignore him in favor of his writing.  Should he not, well, that's okay, too.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

I know I in no way contribute in comparison to both Roger and Cram, but here is my thoughts on it. 

I've been ignoring Cram and his posts and his threads for months now and will be perfectly happy to continue to do so if he decides to return. 

He did post content and he had some great ideas. 

I'm real good with live and let live.

[Faust]

I'm not comfortable with discussing his pros and cons when he simply isn't here.

I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.
To date the only comment I have seen PD related was to mention that he missed people, but he was trying hard to get a change of scenery.

If people want to bring this up when if he comes back thats a different story, but as of now not only is flogging a dead horse, the horse isn't even here any more.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not comfortable with discussing his pros and cons when he simply isn't here.

I'd just as soon not have discussed it, either, but half a dozen people came on, attributing motives to me that weren't true.

I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.

Nobody said he did.  In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.

If people want to bring this up when if he comes back thats a different story, but as of now not only is flogging a dead horse, the horse isn't even here any more.

See my first response in this post. 

[East Coast Hustle]

I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.

Nobody said he did.  In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.

I did, actually, but I apparently got my beefs crossed up and attributed to Cram something that CU had done.

I'd like to see Cram come back and post here. There are more people here that like him than dislike him, and even the people who dislike him personally seem to appreciate the content he contributes here. I know I appreciate the content he contributes here, regardless of my personal opinion of the guy.

That said, if he can't take a little shit-flinging and accept that his actions are bound to have consequences in the social arena of PD.com then maybe 23ae is more his speed. I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about all of it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I sincerely doubt he took any of his upset from here off boards to places like facebook.

Nobody said he did.  In fact, when someone tried to bring it there, he told them to cut it out.

I did, actually, but I apparently got my beefs crossed up and attributed to Cram something that CU had done.

I'd like to see Cram come back and post here. There are more people here that like him than dislike him, and even the people who dislike him personally seem to appreciate the content he contributes here. I know I appreciate the content he contributes here, regardless of my personal opinion of the guy.

That said, if he can't take a little shit-flinging and accept that his actions are bound to have consequences in the social arena of PD.com then maybe 23ae is more his speed. I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about all of it.

More to the point, being liked or disliked shouldn't really have anything to do with it.

You spew because you HAVE to spew, not so that people can make comments about what a great spew it was.

At least to my way of thinking.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'd say that the single most important thing my time at PD.com has taught me is that to advance your personal agenda through the world in anything resembling an effective manner, you HAVE to be able to divorce your ego from your actions and their results.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'd say that the single most important thing my time at PD.com has taught me is that to advance your personal agenda through the world in anything resembling an effective manner, you HAVE to be able to divorce your ego from your actions and their results.

Yep.  And you have to divorce your ego from your perceptions, or you'll never see The Truth.

This is where the Buddhists fucked up.  You CAN'T have "no self", or you aren't a person, and The Truth is therefore useless.

But if you can train yourself to make your ego sit down and shut up for ten minutes, you can get somewhere.  It's not easy, in fact it's not always POSSIBLE, but nobody said it had to be.

[Payne]

You know, I don't think I realized how much of a polarizing figure Cram was.  I know there have been core philosophical conflicts, but I must have assumed they were no different than any other argument we usually have.

Cram was, in my opinion, my opposite pole in every way.  The board is lacking something with him gone.

^This is how I've always seen it.

Roger is a guy I'd trust my life with if it came down to a crazy situation where I had to depend on someone 8000km away (and one can never be too sure that that kind of crazy situation will never crop up these days). He's a man I'm honoured to call friend, even if it's an entirely internet based thing.

Cram is one of the reasons I stuck around long enough on PD for it to take hold, and holy shitfuckdamn we've had some awesomecrazy forum adventures. I see Cram on the regular on IRC, and I consider him to be a friend too.

But they're both undeniably very different people, in style, substance, outlook... Every conceivable thing you can think of. And probably more polar opposite than any other two members of this fucked up little forum.

I dunno if this post has any real point, other than wanting to make a public statement of my incredibly high esteem for both parties.

[BabylonHoruv]

I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger.  A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.

I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return.  I think the board was richer for the dynamic.

[Adios]

Some of us (me) just got tired of being told all the time that we (me) was doing it wrong. "You're not nice enough" was the bullshit that finally pissed me off. "I want a bigger audience" was another one.

Fuck it. I wasn't even posting here anymore until the futuristic thread, and after this I will go back to only posting there.

[Payne]

I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger.  A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.

I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return.  I think the board was richer for the dynamic.

PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?

I wouldn't want it that way anyway.

And we don't need a counterpoint to Roger. Roger can counterpoint Roger if need be. Just ask him to sing both Montserrat Caballés and Freddie Mercurys parts for Barcelona at the same time, and you'll see what I mean.

Thing is, PD doesn't actually need ANY of us here, it just needs bipeds and opposable thumbs and the rest will sort itself out. Or it won't. But it'll be hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.

[BabylonHoruv]

I agree about Cram being a sort of opposite pole to Roger.  A balance that it feels like the forum is now lacking.

I was away during his departure and I don't want to make any sort of comment or judgement about it really but I do hope that someone who is as eloquent and prolific as Cram will emerge as a counterpoint to Roger if Cram himself does not return.  I think the board was richer for the dynamic.

PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?

I wouldn't want it that way anyway.

And we don't need a counterpoint to Roger. Roger can counterpoint Roger if need be. Just ask him to sing both Montserrat Caballés and Freddie Mercurys parts for Barcelona at the same time, and you'll see what I mean.

Thing is, PD doesn't actually need ANY of us here, it just needs bipeds and opposable thumbs and the rest will sort itself out. Or it won't. But it'll be hilarious and infuriating in equal measure.

Oh I know, it's a great board and will be with or without anyone being a "positive" influence.  I just liked it.

[Elder Iptuous]

PD has never been balanced. You ever tried balancing a pin head on the head of another pin? And then doing so for a hundred or so regularish posters?

so...
you're saying that PD is like a wading through a pile of pins, and that you're bound to get a bunch of pricks?