You've gone too far, eh?

[Freeky]

Has anyone seen Requia?  I think chemist ate her.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And the energy required to do all of this comes from where?  Or do they just change in the full moon?

Jesus Christ, "Ch3mist", we already have two pedantic twats.  Pull your head out of your arse.

TGRR,
Knows precisely how much energy that takes, as he runs the maintenance department for a chemical refinery.

A discussion about the energy efficiency of these processes is confusing possibility with practicality.

Oh, so we're not talking about real life. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Has anyone seen Requia?  I think chemist ate her.

What we have here, I am guessing, is someone in 2d year chemistry, with precisely jack and shit for industrial/refining experience.

I love that shit.  It's like listening to a 2d year econ student tell you all about the glories of the Laffer curve.

[Freeky]

I was just going to suggest that chemist here, having chosen his name as such, knew just enough to think he sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and wasn't expecting any resistance in the form of ACTUAL knowledge and first hand experience. 

[Luna]

So I guess now you have three of us, but as much as I'm a pedantic twat and you're a dismissive cunt.

Noticed that, did ya?  

Lesson the First:  Calling someone a "cunt" around here is pretty much a recognition that they've owned your ass (or someone else's) in a spectacular fashion.  The shock value of the word is pretty much nil.

Lesson the Second:  Trolling here?  Gotta be one of the larger wastes of time I can imagine.  The place is filled with pros.  It's kinda like watching an excited yorkie trying to hump a great dane's leg.  Cute, briefly, but gets old, right up 'til the dane decides to step on the little shit.

Lesson the Third:  Nobody is impressed by pedants.  Not here.  There are far too many brilliant folks who are happy to talk on just about any subject, shed knowledge like the village whore sheds herpes, and do it without talking down to anybody or showing off in the slightest.

Good luck, kid.

[Freeky]

He's used up his luck.  I'm waiting for the Royal Wedding of chemist's ass and someone's BOOT.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

He's used up his luck.  I'm waiting for the Royal Wedding of chemist's ass and someone's BOOT.

DIBS ON THE MATRON OF HONOR SPOT! 

HOODY HOO!

[Freeky]

He's used up his luck.  I'm waiting for the Royal Wedding of chemist's ass and someone's BOOT.

DIBS ON THE MATRON OF HONOR SPOT! 

HOODY HOO!

I would never dare THINK of stealing that honor from you, sir.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So I guess now you have three of us, but as much as I'm a pedantic twat and you're a dismissive cunt.

Noticed that, did ya?  

Lesson the First:  Calling someone a "cunt" around here is pretty much a recognition that they've owned your ass (or someone else's) in a spectacular fashion.  The shock value of the word is pretty much nil.

Lesson the Second:  Trolling here?  Gotta be one of the larger wastes of time I can imagine.  The place is filled with pros.  It's kinda like watching an excited yorkie trying to hump a great dane's leg.  Cute, briefly, but gets old, right up 'til the dane decides to step on the little shit.

Lesson the Third:  Nobody is impressed by pedants.  Not here.  There are far too many brilliant folks who are happy to talk on just about any subject, shed knowledge like the village whore sheds herpes, and do it without talking down to anybody or showing off in the slightest.

Good luck, kid.

It never fails to give me a boot when someone tells me what a horrible cunt I am, online or IRL.  I walk around smiling for the rest of the day.

[Luna]

He's used up his luck.  I'm waiting for the Royal Wedding of chemist's ass and someone's BOOT.

I hadn't done my One Nice Thing^TM today.  Had to get it out of the way before fencing practice tonight so I wouldn't have to do something like stop throwing a perfectly decent cup shot.

[ch3mist]

Has anyone seen Requia?  I think chemist ate her.

What we have here, I am guessing, is someone in 2d year chemistry, with precisely jack and shit for industrial/refining experience.

I love that shit.  It's like listening to a 2d year econ student tell you all about the glories of the Laffer curve.

You are correct that I have little industrial chemical experience... aside from a brief stint in a corn mill I really have zero.

What I do have experience with that's relevant to the conversation is inorganic catalysis, a field which often produces radical changes in what is industrially feasible and what is not.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What I do have experience with that's relevant to the conversation is inorganic catalysis, a field which often produces radical changes in what is industrially feasible and what is not.

Yeah, that's the field I work in.

So, without industrial or refining experience, from what experience DO you draw these wonderful ideas about generating enough power to reliably run a refinery given a shortage of available fuel that is somehow also infinite in quantity?

[ch3mist]

What I do have experience with that's relevant to the conversation is inorganic catalysis, a field which often produces radical changes in what is industrially feasible and what is not.

Yeah, that's the field I work in.

So, without industrial or refining experience, from what experience DO you draw these wonderful ideas about generating enough power to reliably run a refinery given a shortage of available fuel that is somehow also infinite in quantity?

You already said where you work, and it was noted.

You may be using the term in a more general sense, but I'm not talking about refining hydrocarbons. I'm talking about synthetic generation of them. The idea comes from the goal of creating catalysts that convert combustion byproducts (CO and CO2) to hydrocarbons at temperatures < 300 C and pressures < 100 atm, reaction conditions that I hope we can both agree could be produced from industrial waste heat. I know Yamasaki has stated the goal, but I'm not sure if he originally set it. He's working on Manganese nanotunnel catalysts that could serve this purpose and while the approach is unique he certainly isn't alone in his goal.

Given that the problem is one of efficiency rather than possibility, the notion that we'll run out of biologically derived hydrocarbons before being able to supplant them commercially with synthetic hydrocarbons seems little more than a fanciful disaster scenario on par with Y2K or 2012.

[hooplala]

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What I do have experience with that's relevant to the conversation is inorganic catalysis, a field which often produces radical changes in what is industrially feasible and what is not.

Yeah, that's the field I work in.

So, without industrial or refining experience, from what experience DO you draw these wonderful ideas about generating enough power to reliably run a refinery given a shortage of available fuel that is somehow also infinite in quantity?

You already said where you work, and it was noted.

You may be using the term in a more general sense, but I'm not talking about refining hydrocarbons. I'm talking about synthetic generation of them. The idea comes from the goal of creating catalysts that convert combustion byproducts (CO and CO2) to hydrocarbons at temperatures < 300 C and pressures < 100 atm, reaction conditions that I hope we can both agree could be produced from industrial waste heat. I know Yamasaki has stated the goal, but I'm not sure if he originally set it. He's working on Manganese nanotunnel catalysts that could serve this purpose and while the approach is unique he certainly isn't alone in his goal.

Given that the problem is one of efficiency rather than possibility, the notion that we'll run out of biologically derived hydrocarbons before being able to supplant them commercially with synthetic hydrocarbons seems little more than a fanciful disaster scenario on par with Y2K or 2012.

Okay, so tell me...How are we going to conduct the industrial waste heat to our refineries and/or production facilities?  Also, we've found that creating a slurry and then subjecting it to 1420C temperatures removes the need for 100atm.  It's not elegant, but we make a shitpile of product.  Our alcohol facility uses lower temperatures, but higher pressures.

And I don't see a lot of work being put into this sort of thing.  There is precisely one (1) aluminum - alcohol plant in the world (ours), and it requires natural gas by the shit-ton, three (3) coal - gas plants, and damn near no CO/CO² - hydrocarbon work being done in anything approaching actual production in quantity.  You can't just build these plants on demand, either, as there are long lead times on things like karbate block heat exchangers, and FFAs.

So sitting back and saying it will all work out because it can be done in theory is like listening to the outsourcing gurus explain that "new technology" would replace manufacturing jobs.  Someone has to be actively DOING it, and damn few are, for blatantly obvious political reasons.