Fuck you, it's another Osama thread.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I guess, for me, in the end it will boil down to what the President's order was... if it was "Capture alive if possible... otherwise kill" then I have 0 issues. If it was "Assasianate the motherfucker" I'm far less comfortable with that kind of command... but in the end, I'm still OK with him being dead.

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

I guess I've seen the Rule of Law abused or ignored far too often to think its really the basis for civilization.

[Adios]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

Your optimism surprises me some. Kill orders are nothing new at all. Damn, maybe I'm just that fucking jaded.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

I guess I've seen the Rule of Law abused or ignored far too often to think its really the basis for civilization.

You can't abuse the rule of law.  You can only do OTHER shit, and CALL it the rule of law.  

And there are 3 things that hold civilization together:

1.  The rule of law.  Without it, you get Somalia, EVERY TIME.

2.  Beer.  Beer is probably responsible for civilization starting in the first place.

3.  Contracts for pouring concrete.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

Your optimism surprises me some. Kill orders are nothing new at all. Damn, maybe I'm just that fucking jaded.

At what point did I call kill orders new?  In fact, a page or so ago, I was pointing out that they have been the norm for most of our history.

[Adios]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

Your optimism surprises me some. Kill orders are nothing new at all. Damn, maybe I'm just that fucking jaded.

At what point did I call kill orders new?  In fact, a page or so ago, I was pointing out that they have been the norm for most of our history.

Sorry about that, still a little fuzzy headed today.

PILLZ HERE

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The Rule of Law is great, but the Rule of Reality sometimes overrides.

Balls.

That's why I'm so uncomfortable with all of this.  I'm glad he's dead, but the rule of law IS, or it ISN'T, and if it isn't, then you have no civilization worth living in.

I guess I've seen the Rule of Law abused or ignored far too often to think its really the basis for civilization.

You can't abuse the rule of law.  You can only do OTHER shit, and CALL it the rule of law.  

And there are 3 things that hold civilization together:

1.  The rule of law.  Without it, you get Somalia, EVERY TIME.

2.  Beer.  Beer is probably responsible for civilization starting in the first place.

3.  Contracts for pouring concrete.

Well, I guess thats the thing... how much of our Rule of Law is rule of law vs the American bastardized version? If its not always and consistently applied, I can't think of a more appropriate incident to have it misapplied in.

Besides, I'm still not sure that assassination shouldn't be an option. Had we gone that route 10 years ago, maybe we would be 10 years into a war nor short a few thousand soldiers and lots of money.

Also, I think you're right on 2 and 3 

[Adios]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

So then what is it that we've been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past several years?

[Adios]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

So then what is it that we've been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past several years?

I refuse to be dragged into semantics here. You know very well what I meant.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

So then what is it that we've been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past several years?

I refuse to be dragged into semantics here. You know very well what I meant.

I don't think it's a question of semantics, Charley, just a question of scale.

One death is shocking.  A hundred thousand deaths is a statistic.

[Adios]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

So then what is it that we've been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past several years?

I refuse to be dragged into semantics here. You know very well what I meant.

I don't think it's a question of semantics, Charley, just a question of scale.

One death is shocking.  A hundred thousand deaths is a statistic.

I suppose you are right. Some days I forget that the US is now one of the bad guys.

Actually if we look at it head on all this country is has come from war, from the beginning, including the western expansion, Mexico, hell, we even found a reason to fight each other when no one else was around.

[East Coast Hustle]

And of course, on that fateful day in September, they reached the Number 1 spot with....









.....

















...Wait for it....











































"It's Raining Men"

In an unprecedented feat, they also simultaneously had the number 2 spot on the charts with their cover of the classic Public Enemy song "9-1-1 is a Joke".

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

There is an obvious very real issue with sanctioned murder.

So then what is it that we've been doing in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past several years?

I refuse to be dragged into semantics here. You know very well what I meant.

I don't think it's a question of semantics, Charley, just a question of scale.

One death is shocking.  A hundred thousand deaths is a statistic.

Yeah, that was kinda my point. I mean really, the drone attacks, the door to door firefights, the bombings... its all sanctioned murder. We just call it war so we can feel better about it.

As far as I can tell, sanctioned murder has existed as long as the Rule of Law in every civilization (Maybe there are some exceptions, I dunno). I am reminded of Prof La Paz from the book 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress', he argued that every individual is completely responsible for their actions. The man who pulls the trigger is guilty of murder, be he a soldier or a gangster. following 'orders' doesn't change the fact.

Indeed, as far as I can tell the biggest difference between the thousands of 'sanctioned murders' in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the 'sanctioned murder' of Bin Laden is that in the case of Bin Lade, we didn't really have innocent casualties.

What's better, killing a specific bad guy, or killing a bunch of bad guys and a bunch of innocent people? I mean, neither sit real comfortable with me, but in terms of human life it seems kinda clear...

Also, if the police chased down some wanted murderer, busted into his house and he refused to surrender (and had weapons nearby), how many people would be outraged when the cops killed him?