Shrinks...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors?

Because we were talking about counselors generally, not her in particular, so it's not beside the point. Tons of people get sent to substance abuse counseling.

Funny, because I thought this thread was about the OP's question. Silly me!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I also have to point out that "99.9% of the people running around" don't live far away from a city, aren't on Medicaid, and aren't druggies.

Affordable? That can be harder to manage. Mine charges me $30/session because I'm poor.

Ok, there's usually a city less than 100 miles away.
So, assuming somebody will do it for $30 a session, that's $120 a month. Plus gas, or go greyhound - fifty miles greyhound will run you about $50 round trip these days. Plus time off work, in most cases. Sessions are usually weekly, so that's over $300 a month plus lost wages. Not cheap.

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

[Thurnez Isa]

Not sure if this is how it is in the states, but here you can't even really see a psychologist unless you get a referral from a doctor, and counselors also give referrals to doctors.
When my mental problems became unbearable I went to see a counselor cause I thought that is what people did. It was the counselor who realized it was medical related and I signed me up with my current doctor. My doctor did all the necessary medical tests (pancreas, liver, ect) and gave me precipitation to anti-psychotics to get me to sleep. Then she did all the necessary referrals to psychiatrists. She actually monitors my treatment and if I like the psychiatrist, ect. Would probably be the same if I had to see a psychologist.

My doctor is also a super hot blond.
I don't know why I added that part.

[AFK]

What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.

Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.

I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?

No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.

BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.

OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors? I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into treatment, they tell them where they're going for treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.

Just to be clear here, counseling IS treatment.  That is, it is a form of treatment.  And I would also say that if a judge is telling someone where they need to go for treatment, they are doing it wrong, and possibly breaking the law.  A person, ethically, should have a choice of provider.  In my state, it is mandated by law that a child seeking counseling have a choice of provider.  Adults need to have that choice as well.  It may turn out that the choices are so limited that, in the end, they only have one choice, but they still should have the power to make that choice.  

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, medical doctors are mostly useless except for referrals to shrinks. They'll just try to put you on antidepressants. Ask a friend or just use Google, and expect to talk to a few (good ones will let you meet with them for a free consultation) before you find one that clicks.

Therapists are required to have specific credentials; counselors aren't. Good luck!

There is a lot of medical problems that can cause mood disorders, such as pancreas infections.

The "medical doctors are mostly useless" line is really lacking context and that's my own fault; I thought about modifying it, because of course medical doctors ARE very useful for many things, but by the time I thought about it, it was a page in. I should have said, if you're having psychological issues other than straightforward depression, an MD is unlikely to be very useful. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What makes any of that relevant to the OP? And if you don't know the difference between a state-licensed practitioner and one with a certificate from the School of Gomez, why on earth are you giving uninformed advice? There are also people who have had terrible experiences with dentists... I wouldn't go to an unlicensed dentist, myself. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking goes a long way in selecting a qualified practitioner for anything.

Unlicensed dentists are a rarity. Unlicensed counselors are the vast majority. And most people don't know the "licensed professional counselor" magic words. They look in the phone book, not state websites.

I take it that your daughter had a drug problem, was remanded to counseling by a judge, and chose the cheapest counselors she could find?

No, she was molested. She had anger issues. Thus the "just take a deep breath" bullshit. That, and the journaling. The counselors would ask her if she was keeping up her journal and she would say "yes" and that was the end of it.

BTW, when judges remand people into treatment, it's the judge who tells them where they're going for treatment.

OK... so what's with all the completely-beside-the-point talk about drug counselors? I'm trying to figure out the relevance. When judges remand people into treatment, they tell them where they're going for treatment. When a judge orders counseling, the court order usually only stipulates that the person must go to counseling, not where. A judge wouldn't legally be able to remand someone to go to a non-state-licensed counselor. A judge can also court-order drug treatment and not specify where.

Just to be clear here, counseling IS treatment.  That is, it is a form of treatment.  And I would also say that if a judge is telling someone where they need to go for treatment, they are doing it wrong, and possibly breaking the law.  A person, ethically, should have a choice of provider.  In my state, it is mandated by law that a child seeking counseling have a choice of provider.  It may turn out that the choices are so limited that, in the end, they only have one choice, but they still should have the power to make that choice.  

I was thinking of state-run institutional rehab... the places that addicts get sent to instead of jail. In my state, those are the only places I'm aware a judge may directly remand someone into. Otherwise they are just ordered to get treatment, their choice of where.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not sure if this is how it is in the states, but here you can't even really see a psychologist unless you get a referral from a doctor, and counselors also give referrals to doctors.
When my mental problems became unbearable I went to see a counselor cause I thought that is what people did. It was the counselor who realized it was medical related and I signed me up with my current doctor. My doctor did all the necessary medical tests (pancreas, liver, ect) and gave me precipitation to anti-psychotics to get me to sleep. Then she did all the necessary referrals to psychiatrists. She actually monitors my treatment and if I like the psychiatrist, ect. Would probably be the same if I had to see a psychologist.

My doctor is also a super hot blond.
I don't know why I added that part.

It's very different here. If you have insurance, you might need a referral depending on your coverage, but for the most part you just pick someone and start seeing them. If unsure, you can ask your doctor for a referral, though; pretty much all doctors have lists of therapists they refer to. So referrals are available, but not required. A therapist will collaborate with your doctor if you ask them to and sign a release permitting it; otherwise they are subject to the same privacy laws your doctor is.

Psychiatrists are a little different; they are usually affiliated with a hospital and require a referral. Likewise with certain specialists, like neuropsychologists.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I have nothing to add to this conversation.  No.  This is not my first BBQ, and if anyone here thinks I'm dumb enough to get between Nigel & Stella, they have another fucking thing coming.

Just saying.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I have nothing to add to this conversation.  No.  This is not my first BBQ, and if anyone here thinks I'm dumb enough to get between Nigel & Stella, they have another fucking thing coming.

Just saying.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

I already answered that question, earlier in this thread.

Anyway, I am done with this conversation, it's going in circles.

[AFK]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better.  Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant. 

[Luna]

Most people live in cities or towns that have therapists. Right in them. The above scenario is nothing short of absurd unless you are describing a small minority of people in need of therapy.

A quick google for my town turned up two LPC's - one working at the hospital that only takes Blue Cross and suchlike, and one working at MHMR with the disabled kids. There are no LADC's. None.
This place is pretty typical for a small town (population about 26,000) and there's counseling services popping up and shutting down all the time. Just not licensed.

I don't know what your vendetta is against therapy, but I also don't appreciate you assuming you know me better than I know myself. Please don't do it again.

Have I ever said you shouldn't have done it? It apparently worked for you. That doesn't mean it works for everybody, any more than powerlifting or sitting zazen are helpful for everybody. People get benefits from different things. The point of it is to find irrational thought patterns and get rid of them, right? There's other ways.

Did you look up "therapist"? LPC is only ONE type of licensed, qualified practitioner, as has been pointed out repeatedly by more than one person.

Nobody in this thread has said there aren't other ways. The only person who spoke out unequivocally against anything is you. You seem intent on twisting yourself into knots to defend an indefensible statement.

My take on it. I've always seen a massive discrepancy between the number of people who seek out/are remanded into therapy vs. number of people who actually get any benefit from it.
Not sure why this bothers you so much.

It's cliche, but a person has to want to get better, to get better.  Counseling can do wonders, but the person getting the counseling needs to be an active and engaged participant. 

And they need to understand it's a PROCESS, and that they have to WORK.  It's not like popping a week of antibiotics, or setting a bone.