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Okay, so this "Chapel Perilous" thing. Explain it, please.

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, May 09, 2011, 10:57:44 PM

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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 10, 2011, 03:09:30 PM
Chapel Perilous = An especially intense form of cognitive dissonance, one that is fairly difficult to resolve.

BRAVO!  :lulz:
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 08:06:20 AM
RAW-speak for a mid life crisis.

I disagree. In  fact, when RAW discusses it he points out that you may go through the Chapel many times, not just once. Anytime reality rejects your perception of reality is a point where you might be entering Chapel Perilous.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Cain

Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Also, the usage of Arthurian terminology has a lot to do with RAW's views on the mythology of the 'Hero's Journey' (Monomyth) inspired by Joseph Campbell, Jung and Crowley (as Crowley's interpretation of the tarot follows along the traditional momomyth), Of course, he also finds the same mythology in Joyce's, Finnegan's Wake.

This is actually (for me at least) one of the more interesting things I've picked up in reading all of these spags. :)

The basic story is repeated with different characters from Odysseus, Parsifal and Jesus through Luke Skywalker and Hiro Nakamura; the journey from Fool to Magus. Chapel Perilous, in different guises fits in almost all of these stories. So for example, Luke's experience in the Cave where he kills Vader/Himself is a trip through Chapel Perilous.

Campbell and by extension RAW tend to see the monomyth as a mythological description of the underlying human experience. That is we all begin as a Fool and MAY all end as the Magus and we may all go through Chapel Perilous on the way.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

d'Oh sorry didn't catch it as a joke.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

HIMEOBS

YOU CANNOT PEDANT ENOUGH.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on May 10, 2011, 05:07:18 PM
Also, the usage of Arthurian terminology has a lot to do with RAW's views on the mythology of the 'Hero's Journey' (Monomyth) inspired by Joseph Campbell, Jung and Crowley (as Crowley's interpretation of the tarot follows along the traditional momomyth), Of course, he also finds the same mythology in Joyce's, Finnegan's Wake.

This is actually (for me at least) one of the more interesting things I've picked up in reading all of these spags. :)

The basic story is repeated with different characters from Odysseus, Parsifal and Jesus through Luke Skywalker and Hiro Nakamura; the journey from Fool to Magus. Chapel Perilous, in different guises fits in almost all of these stories. So for example, Luke's experience in the Cave where he kills Vader/Himself is a trip through Chapel Perilous.

Campbell and by extension RAW tend to see the monomyth as a mythological description of the underlying human experience. That is we all begin as a Fool and MAY all end as the Magus and we may all go through Chapel Perilous on the way.

As a random sidebar:

Becoming the Magus is a difficult thing. In Crowley's deck, for example, the Magus has spears, swords and other nasty stuff beneath his feet. This can be interpreted in two ways, the Magus may be powerful enough to tread over the physical threats, or the Magus may destroy that which he walks over, the swords etc slicing up his friends and those who care for him. This can be seen in the metaphor of Darth Vader, the Fallen Magus, or the Magus that was not properly prepared for his Chapel Perilous journey. Sylar, in the series Heroes also acts as the fallen Magus. In both of these cases, it was 'shrapnel' from their previous experiences in life that led to their downfall. Ani Skywalker's youth was as a slave, he was unable to save his mother and he was corrupted by Senator Palpatine. Sylar had a strange childhood, confusing Mommy issues and was screwed over by HRG.

In mythic terms RAW discusses it like this:

"if you go into that realm without the sword of reason, you will lose your mind, but at the same time, if you take only the sword of reason without the cup of sympathy, you will lose your heart. Even more remarkably, if you approach without the wand of intuition, you can stand at the door for decades never realizing you have arrived. You might think you are just waiting for a bus, or wandering from room to room looking for your cigarettes, watching a TV show, or reading a cryptic and ambiguous book website. Chapel Perilous is tricky that way."

I'd almost say that re-imagining this mythology in more modern terms might be an interesting project. Campbell believed that the myth must always be updated and made useful for the current society. Otherwise, 'temples become museums'.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Payne

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

HIMEOBS

YOU CANNOT PEDANT ENOUGH.

Actually, the vikings were ALLIED to the Byzantine Empire.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Payne on May 10, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

HIMEOBS

YOU CANNOT PEDANT ENOUGH.

Actually, the vikings were ALLIED to the Byzantine Empire.

:lol:

Actually, though, I was thinking more along the lines of Requia, who couldn't get her head around the idea that I had been talking about what objectivists believe, without advocating those beliefs myself.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Payne

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 10, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

HIMEOBS

YOU CANNOT PEDANT ENOUGH.

Actually, the vikings were ALLIED to the Byzantine Empire.

:lol:

Actually, though, I was thinking more along the lines of Requia, who couldn't get her head around the idea that I had been talking about what objectivists believe, without advocating those beliefs myself.

That too.

Pedantry is something I have to actively stop myself engaging in, but I reckon I do rather well really. I see it all over the place on PD though.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Payne on May 10, 2011, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: Payne on May 10, 2011, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 10, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
Note to self:  no joking anymore on the Discordian forums.

HIMEOBS

YOU CANNOT PEDANT ENOUGH.

Actually, the vikings were ALLIED to the Byzantine Empire.

:lol:

Actually, though, I was thinking more along the lines of Requia, who couldn't get her head around the idea that I had been talking about what objectivists believe, without advocating those beliefs myself.

That too.

Pedantry is something I have to actively stop myself engaging in, but I reckon I do rather well really. I see it all over the place on PD though.

No, only on certain subforums.










:lol:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Reeducation

Chapel Perilous = Trying to figure out some "pretty important shit dude" (life, death, reality, and so on) and most of the time failing at it.


I am very calm

*GrumpButt*

Ok so.. Since my brain is s-l-o-w:

Is it like:

I beleive in x.

So and so proves x is wrong.

Now I either have to learn from this, or just go back to x anyway.

I R CONFUSED
*sigh* You have to be kidding me.

LMNO

Concept one: "I am a smart person who makes rational choices that betters my life."

Concept two: "I willingly partake in smoking, which has been proven to shorten and diminish the quality of my life" (if you're not a smoker, substitute a comparable self-destructive behavior).


Try to think about both thoughts simultaneously, without justifying, blaming, or otherwise ducking out of it.


Now, imagine that weird, uncomfortable feeling you get multiplied by about x1023.  That's Chapel Perilous.


[Edit for exponential math geekery]

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: *GrumpButt* on May 10, 2011, 08:33:57 PM
Ok so.. Since my brain is s-l-o-w:

Is it like:

I beleive in x.

So and so proves x is wrong.

Now I either have to learn from this, or just go back to x anyway.

I R CONFUSED

At its most basic, yep. More particularly if X is really really super important to your view of reality. So for example if you SRSLY SRS believe in X and the negation of X forces you to reevaluate your view of reality... then that's Chapel Perilous.

Also, LMNO riding the correct motorcycle as usual.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson