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Curious about a concept in the BIP

Started by Wyldkat, May 13, 2011, 11:56:24 PM

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Wyldkat

    I am curious about something I noticed while reading on the forums here. I went and read the BIP and PD to make sure I wasn't just hallucinating and I'm pretty sure I'm not at this point.

    First of all, to make sure I didn't totally misread everything, one of the general ideas in BIP is that each person sees everything from his/her own viewpoint which is based on his/her life up to that point. I see the world through my BIP, you see the world through yours and what we each see can be totally different, even if we are looking at the same things. The society one is raised in contributes a lot to the bars of the prison. We have the choice to just blindly exist in our BIP or to realize what it is and choose to change it to suit ourselves, adding in what we want and taking away what we don't want (in the BIP that seemed to be mainly mainstream societal gobblety gook).

    Ok, now if what I just stated is correct (or close to correct or not blatantly wrong and misread) then what I have been noticing is true. I debated for quite awhile over posting this, but I'm really curious about the correlation I'm seeing and I'm hoping that people can get past the term in about to use and address what I noticed. Here's the part I'm expecting to get flamed for. This concept is a basic one in some shamanic paths. I've known this and used this as my world view for years, long before I ever knew about Discordians. I'm curious why there is such disparagement for a system of thought that has such similarities. I'm also curious what the differences in thought on this concept might be since I couldn't puzzle that out while I was reading beyond the stress placed on mainstream societal issues in the BIP.

Cain

It's quite simple.  Because shamanism is made up bullshit invented by epileptics in order to get villagers to hand over their goat.

It's the dark side.  And shamans (priests, imams etc) are so humourless when you mock their clearly false beliefs.

Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

The word 'curious' summoned me. I'm interested in this discussion. But mostly I'm amused you have an avatar here that you'd be banned for using on TCC. I will think on this and get back to you.
Weevil-Infested Badfun Wrongsex Referee From The 9th Earth
Slick and Deranged Wombat of Manhood Questioning
Hulking Dormouse of Lust and DESPAIRâ„¢
Gatling Geyser of Rainbow AIDS

"The only way we can ever change anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy." - Akala  'Find No Enemy'.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 12:07:47 AM
The word 'curious' summoned me. I'm interested in this discussion. But mostly I'm amused you have an avatar here that you'd be banned for using on TCC. I will think on this and get back to you.

:lulz: I believe that is the avatar I had before the one that landed me in TU, that was deleted for being "pornographic".
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cain

Quote from: Nigel on May 14, 2011, 12:41:08 AM
Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:

Then you need to harass this person with your visions of imminent doom more often.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cain on May 14, 2011, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 14, 2011, 12:41:08 AM
Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:

Then you need to harass this person with your visions of imminent doom more often.

That can be arranged.

But I want mah GOATS.  :lulz:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Freeky

I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.

The Good Reverend Roger

Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on May 14, 2011, 02:23:01 AM
I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 14, 2011, 02:35:33 AM
Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

Let me see if I understand what you guys are saying. And please correct me if I am wrong.

You guys are suggesting that shamanism is a something that will dig you deeper into the bowels of the prison, by its very nature. Instead of allowing you to free yourself from the prison as much as possible.

Sort of like getting thrown into solitary or having time added instead of going for time off for good behavior?

And getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?

Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?

And that makes me wonder if trying to make things like shamanism work isn't another cell in BIP . . .

Which leaves me thinking I shouldn't think when I wake up from a nap until I've had a Pepsi and perhaps a shower.
Weevil-Infested Badfun Wrongsex Referee From The 9th Earth
Slick and Deranged Wombat of Manhood Questioning
Hulking Dormouse of Lust and DESPAIRâ„¢
Gatling Geyser of Rainbow AIDS

"The only way we can ever change anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy." - Akala  'Find No Enemy'.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 AM

Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


I'd like to answer that with a question:  What if monkeys rocket out of my arse on jet-propelled unicycles?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Wyldkat

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 14, 2011, 02:35:33 AM
Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

No disagreement here.  Everything is just a creation.  What got to me was the fact that literally the exact same teaching was being used in what I study and what I read here.  I've also found echos of it elsewhere.

Quote from: Jenkem and Tomahawks on May 14, 2011, 02:23:01 AM
I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.

Ok, that's pretty much what I learned elsewhere, just with slightly different terms.  What I learned was that it wasn't so much about escaping as it was about recognizing the inherent constraints and letting them go, accepting the limitations and by acceptance going beyond them.  Also it involved understanding others in a much more realistic way than is generally taught.

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 AM
Let me see if I understand what you guys are saying. And please correct me if I am wrong.

You guys are suggesting that shamanism is a something that will dig you deeper into the bowels of the prison, by its very nature. Instead of allowing you to free yourself from the prison as much as possible.

Sort of like getting thrown into solitary or having time added instead of going for time off for good behavior?

That's what I figured, but when the teachings were so similar I got curious.  Hell, Casteneda is quoted in the BIP.  (and lets not turn this into bashing that particular set of teachings which is easy enough to do, it's just another construct after all).

I'm curious how a path that teaches the same concept could be villified so much.  Discordianism is a cell in the prison just as much as shamanism is and both have the same concept.

QuoteAnd getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?

If so it's pretty much the same as what I've been learning, hence my curiosity on the subject.

QuoteWhich leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?

Depending on what part of shamanism you are talking about it does and is historically proven to work.  If it didn't they wouldn't have held such prominent positions in society for as long as they have.  Smoke, mirrors and manipulation can be powerful tools. The metaphysical stuff is really up to each person to make heads or tails of and the opinions that arise from that are simply another bar (or construct), no matter which direction you take.

QuoteAnd that makes me wonder if trying to make things like shamanism work isn't another cell in BIP . . .

In what I've learned, yes it is.  I'm thinking it's the same for the BIP...?

QuoteWhich leaves me thinking I shouldn't think when I wake up from a nap until I've had a Pepsi and perhaps a shower.

LOL  The whole similarity make me feel that way...

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 AM
Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


What do you mean "works"?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

Quote from: Nigel on May 14, 2011, 04:04:54 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 AM
Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


What do you mean "works"?

That instead of being another method of entrapment, it allows a certain acceptance, awareness, and freedom of constraint.
Weevil-Infested Badfun Wrongsex Referee From The 9th Earth
Slick and Deranged Wombat of Manhood Questioning
Hulking Dormouse of Lust and DESPAIRâ„¢
Gatling Geyser of Rainbow AIDS

"The only way we can ever change anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy." - Akala  'Find No Enemy'.

Thurnez Isa

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 AM

And getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?


wow
Im in the wrong religion
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante