Why I use "Yahweh" when talking about the Judeo-Christian god

[Laughin Jude]

I've been called on this a few times by religious types who think I'm either blaspheming or trying to show off my smarty-pants by referring to the Judeo-Christian god by its proper name, but there's a strategy to my usage, and I'd like to spell it out.

When we're talking about any other cultures' gods, we refer to them by their proper names--for example: Zeus, Shiva, Ganesh, Quetzacoatl, Eris. The same isn't generally true about the "default" god of American culture, Yahweh, who is usually referred to as "God" with a capital G. As someone who was once substantially brainwashed into a Christian mode of thinking and has since recovered, this strikes me as a nefarious, though likely mostly subconscious, way for evangelists to pull an end-run around the argument of which deity, if any, is the "correct" one to worship, and it represents a massive, mostly unchallenged bias in the American mind.

For example, take the question "Do you believe in God?" The capital letter there is important; it signifies that we're talking about a specific god, and that god is Yahweh (though many of those who worship him probably don't know that name; they may be more familiar with the old mistranslation "Jehovah"). The assumption inherent within that question becomes more apparent when one answers "no," for then the believer will often ask questions such as "Who do you think created the Universe?" The assumption (beyond "someone or something had to create the Universe," which is asinine for reasons I won't get into here) is that Yahweh, specifically, is the only possible supernatural cause for existence to, well, exist.

See the illogical shortcut we're taking here? It would be one thing to assume that a god created the Universe, but no, by referring specifically to "God," which is understood to be the biblical deity, we're skipping a few steps and positing that it was Yahweh who made the Universe--not Ame-no-Minaka-Nushi-no-Mikoto, not Apsu and Tiamat, not a cosmic turtle with a stomach flu--except we're still referring to Yahweh by the seemingly neutral term "God" to disguise the fact and avoid disputes over which deity gets the credit for creation. Americans seem receptive to the idea that a deity created existence; that's a matter to be addressed elsewhere, though I suspect it may be related to a problem with human thinking I mentioned in This Won't End Well:

"If you don't have any prior opinion or belief regarding a subject, you're likely to adopt the first one presented to you—do I have it right?"

"Well, I never thought about it," Sindy says, "but I guess so."

Using the name Yahweh when referring to the Judeo-Christian god is a way to prevent giving worshippers of that deity a default victory. It forces the conversation to return to a point where Yahweh can be examined on the same level as deities Americans are more comfortable admitting are fake, and it forces believers to make the arguments for why Yahweh, specifically, should be credited as the one true god instead of skipping over the issue and pretending he's the only option when it comes to godhood. In short, it exposes the false dilemma fallacy inherent in the way the Judeo-Christian mythos is presented in America.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You make some really good points, here. I wasn't raised Christian and I don't think I know any Christians, but I know quite a few ex-Christians. I'll have to run this by them.

[Wyldkat]

I really like your reasoning.  I had never thought about it that way before and I think the idea of making the Christian god "God" rather than "Yahweh" really does make the concept more all encompassing.  I like the idea of keeping all the deity concepts on equal footing.

I use the term "god" with my kids, but I think it might confuse them a little that the general term is also the same as the nickname of the Christian god. 

This brought up a lot of stuff to think about for me.

[Elder Iptuous]

Great stuff! 

I refer to yhwh in discussions with my family and friends, too, and have found that it really irritates Christians to do so.  It does exactly as you say, but they are unable to request that you not use his proper name without drawing attention to the fact.  it feels like getting away with an illegal wrestling move every time...

as an aside, there's other fun things to do in the context of family. 
For instance, we pray before meals with the traditional 'god is great, god is good' deal, but my wife and i switch up the pronoun regularly.  i tend to say 'it' and my wife says 'her'.  my kiddos for some reason tend to say 'him' but the hesitation is there, and that's good enough for me.  there have been a few times at family gatherings when one of my kiddos let's slip an unsanctioned pronoun and you can feel the tweak in the atmosphere but nobody says anything.
also, at the conclusion, we put our hands in the air and shout a charismatic 'hallelujah!'.  it's fun and the kiddos like it.  at all the family gatherings, my nuclear unit says it, but the others don't.  at first my folks and my sister's nuclear unit thought it was cute, and were simply glad that i was carrying on any prayer tradition at all, but it has slowly morphed into this uncomfortable thing for them.  we just smile.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Coming from a religion that always used Jehovah, they had a similar view. Though in their case it was more a lack of understanding and respect on the part of other Christian religions. However, the main thrust of this goes back to the later Jewish traditions where YHVH was only used during the rituals of Atonement Day by the High Priest, because most of the people were sinners and couldn't be allowed to use Gods name. The KIng James version made the problem worse by replacing YHVH with LORD. The KJV left the original name in only 4 times out of hundreds. Yahweh, however, is still a guess at the pronunciation.

[Laughin Jude]

I refer to yhwh in discussions with my family and friends, too, and have found that it really irritates Christians to do so.  It does exactly as you say, but they are unable to request that you not use his proper name without drawing attention to the fact. it feels like getting away with an illegal wrestling move every time...

Hahahahaha, so true.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

Good points.  I recognized that they were making a huge leap in logic -- "All of this (waves arms around) had to come from somewhere, therefore you're going straight to Hell to burn forever if you don't fall down on your prayerbones right now and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior!" -- but I had not really thought about the linguistic trick they were using to make the leap seem so easy.

Sometimes if I'm feeling particularly snarky, I'll refer to the Christian god as "Jealous". 

If anyone doesn't get the reference, see here.

You make some really good points, here. I wasn't raised Christian and I don't think I know any Christians, but I know quite a few ex-Christians. I'll have to run this by them.

Wow, the bolded would seem surreal to me.  Here in meatspace, virtually everyone I know is a Christian.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Throw in the story at the end of Exodus 33 about the time Yahweh let Moses look at his ass. Just his ass, because Moses couln't have seen him from the front and lived. 

Literal-minded Bible-believing Christians NEED these things. 

[Telarus]

I do the same for the same reason.

The inverse of this trick is in the PD(p 00065), which I've actually gotten to use _once_.

A PRIMER FOR ERISIAN EVANGELISTS by Lord Omar

        The SOCRATIC APPROACH is most successful when confronting the ignorant. The "socratic approach" is what you call starting an argument by asking questions. You approach the innocent and simply ask "Did you know that God's name is ERIS, and that He is a girl?" If he should answer "Yes." then he probably is a fellow Erisian and so you can forget it. If he says "No." then quickly proceed to:
        THE BLIND ASSERTION and say "Well, He Is a girl, and His name is ERIS!" Shrewedly observe if the subject is convinced. If he is, swear him into the Legion of Dynamic Discord before he changes his mind. If he does not appear convinced, then proceed to:
        THE FAITH BIT: "But you must have Faith! All is lost without Faith! I sure feel sorry for you if you don't have Faith." And then add:
        THE ARGUMENT BY FEAR and in an ominous voice ask "Do you know what happens to those who deny Goddess?" If he hesitates, don't tell him that he will surely be reincarnated as a precious Mao Button and distributed to the poor in the Region of Thud (which would be a mean thing to say), just shake your head sadly and, while wiping a tear from your eye, go to:
        THE FIRST CLAUSE PLOY wherein you point to all of the discord and confusion in the world and exclaim "Well who the hell do you think did all of this, wise guy?" If he says, "Nobody, just impersonal forces." then quickly respond with:
        THE ARGUMENT BY SEMANTICAL GYMNASTICS and say that he is absolutely right, and that those impersonal forces are female and that Her name is ERIS. If he, wonder of wonders, still remains obstinate, then finally resort to:
        THE FIGURATIVE SYMBOLISM DODGE and confide that sophisticated people like himself recognize that Eris is a Figurative Symbol for an Ineffable Metaphysical Reality and that The Erisian Movement is really more like a poem than like a science and that he is liable to be turned into a Precious Mao Button and Distributed to The Poor in The Region of Thud if he does not get hip. Then put him on your mailing list.

I started by replacing the gender terms, which was fairly easy as my family wasn't very church oriented so I mostly had to undo socially acquired habits.. Good thread.

[Triple Zero]

Why is Jehova a "mistranslation" of Yahweh?

Hebrew doesn't has vowels, so they just wrote YHVH (they actually wrote it backwards, even). And the vowels are in between, to anybody's guess, and I bet each Hebrew dialect would fill them in slightly different.

Sometimes I also say Yod-He-Vau-He, if they need it spelled out for them.

And what about the other names of God, like Eheieh or Elohim? There's seven, ten or seventy-two of them, apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

---

BTW reading that article, Laughing Jude, I think you hit the nail on the motherfucking head as to the reason why a lot those beliefs FORBADE SPEAKING THE NAME OF GOD

Check the wikipedia article

they weren't allowed to say the name, so the priests mumbled YHVH as it was written

they weren't allowed to say the name so judaists say "adonai" instead.

they weren't allowed to say the name so that when they filled in the vowels, they used the vowels of "adonai", to remind people to say "adonai" instead (that's your mistranslation bit, I belief).

It makes a lot of sense, as a strong memetic weapon against different belief systems.

Not being allowed to say Yahweh's name automatically puts it separate from anything else to compare it with, since you cannot compare something that won't be named.



As an aside, funny how that's exactly the opposite of washing powder commercials comparing the superior Name Brand to the unnamed "Brand X".

[P3nT4gR4m]

Why is Jehova a "mistranslation" of Yahweh?

Hebrew doesn't has vowels, so they just wrote YHVH (they actually wrote it backwards, even). And the vowels are in between, to anybody's guess, and I bet each Hebrew dialect would fill them in slightly different.

Sometimes I also say Yod-He-Vau-He, if they need it spelled out for them.

And what about the other names of God, like Eheieh or Elohim? There's seven, ten or seventy-two of them, apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

---

BTW reading that article, Laughing Jude, I think you hit the nail on the motherfucking head as to the reason why a lot those beliefs FORBADE SPEAKING THE NAME OF GOD

Check the wikipedia article

they weren't allowed to say the name, so the priests mumbled YHVH as it was written

they weren't allowed to say the name so judaists say "adonai" instead.

they weren't allowed to say the name so that when they filled in the vowels, they used the vowels of "adonai", to remind people to say "adonai" instead (that's your mistranslation bit, I belief).

It makes a lot of sense, as a strong memetic weapon against different belief systems.

Not being allowed to say Yahweh's name automatically puts it separate from anything else to compare it with, since you cannot compare something that won't be named.



As an aside, funny how that's exactly the opposite of washing powder commercials comparing the superior Name Brand to the unnamed "Brand X".

This!

Another thing I can't resist pointing out to any faithfool who makes the mistake of engaging me on the subject is that roughly half of the original names of god were female (with one or two even being considered hermaphroditic)

What the cannibal zombie cult did was to build misogyny in, from the ground up, by replacing all these aspects or personalities with one man and, lets face it, that is explicitly what the christian god is - a man. He's not even really a god, as such, he's the fucking Homer Simpson of theology.

Still, I prefer to avoid engaging believers in discussions that they're not really psychologically equipped to deal with or comprehend. I much prefer to just laugh at them with anyone else who has the intellectual capacity to get the joke.

Christianity is a viral form of retardeness. It's maybe not completely incurable but who the fuck am I, the Marie Curie of philosophy? Fuck no, I'm much more a Lenny Bruce or Bill Hicks - I'd much rather laugh at them than try to cure the stupid bastards

[Succulent Plant]

I've been called on this a few times by religious types who think I'm either blaspheming or trying to show off my smarty-pants by referring to the Judeo-Christian god by its proper name, but there's a strategy to my usage, and I'd like to spell it out.

When we're talking about any other cultures' gods, we refer to them by their proper names--for example: Zeus, Shiva, Ganesh, Quetzacoatl, Eris. The same isn't generally true about the "default" god of American culture, Yahweh, who is usually referred to as "God" with a capital G. As someone who was once substantially brainwashed into a Christian mode of thinking and has since recovered, this strikes me as a nefarious, though likely mostly subconscious, way for evangelists to pull an end-run around the argument of which deity, if any, is the "correct" one to worship, and it represents a massive, mostly unchallenged bias in the American mind.

For example, take the question "Do you believe in God?" The capital letter there is important; it signifies that we're talking about a specific god, and that god is Yahweh (though many of those who worship him probably don't know that name; they may be more familiar with the old mistranslation "Jehovah"). The assumption inherent within that question becomes more apparent when one answers "no," for then the believer will often ask questions such as "Who do you think created the Universe?" The assumption (beyond "someone or something had to create the Universe," which is asinine for reasons I won't get into here) is that Yahweh, specifically, is the only possible supernatural cause for existence to, well, exist.

See the illogical shortcut we're taking here? It would be one thing to assume that a god created the Universe, but no, by referring specifically to "God," which is understood to be the biblical deity, we're skipping a few steps and positing that it was Yahweh who made the Universe--not Ame-no-Minaka-Nushi-no-Mikoto, not Apsu and Tiamat, not a cosmic turtle with a stomach flu--except we're still referring to Yahweh by the seemingly neutral term "God" to disguise the fact and avoid disputes over which deity gets the credit for creation. Americans seem receptive to the idea that a deity created existence; that's a matter to be addressed elsewhere, though I suspect it may be related to a problem with human thinking I mentioned in This Won't End Well:

"If you don't have any prior opinion or belief regarding a subject, you're likely to adopt the first one presented to you—do I have it right?"

"Well, I never thought about it," Sindy says, "but I guess so."

Using the name Yahweh when referring to the Judeo-Christian god is a way to prevent giving worshippers of that deity a default victory. It forces the conversation to return to a point where Yahweh can be examined on the same level as deities Americans are more comfortable admitting are fake, and it forces believers to make the arguments for why Yahweh, specifically, should be credited as the one true god instead of skipping over the issue and pretending he's the only option when it comes to godhood. In short, it exposes the false dilemma fallacy inherent in the way the Judeo-Christian mythos is presented in America.

My parents attended an evangelical christian church for awhile when I was a kid that insisted on saying Yahweh instead of "God" and used this as their method of condemning all other evangelical christian churches as pagans because they weren't specifying that they were worshiping the proper biblical god.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

My parents attended an evangelical christian church for awhile when I was a kid that insisted on saying Yahweh instead of "God" and used this as their method of condemning all other evangelical christian churches as pagans because they weren't specifying that they were worshiping the proper biblical god.

The irony being that any Jewish scholar worth his salt will tell you that the OT is crap, you have to study the Tanakh in the original Hebrew along with the commentaries. They will also say things that would horrify Christians, like not being sure that Moses actually existed and reading the stories as allegorical.
I've yet to find a Jew who thinks dinosaurs existed a few hundred years ago.

[Succulent Plant]

My parents attended an evangelical christian church for awhile when I was a kid that insisted on saying Yahweh instead of "God" and used this as their method of condemning all other evangelical christian churches as pagans because they weren't specifying that they were worshiping the proper biblical god.

The irony being that any Jewish scholar worth his salt will tell you that the OT is crap, you have to study the Tanakh in the original Hebrew along with the commentaries. They will also say things that would horrify Christians, like not being sure that Moses actually existed and reading the stories as allegorical.
I've yet to find a Jew who thinks dinosaurs existed a few hundred years ago.

And then of course the most basic irony that evangelical christians consider jews 'unsaved' although their idea of what 'saved' is, is based on a jewish text about jewish characters and the salvation they claim supposedly comes through a jewish 'messiah'.   

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

My parents attended an evangelical christian church for awhile when I was a kid that insisted on saying Yahweh instead of "God" and used this as their method of condemning all other evangelical christian churches as pagans because they weren't specifying that they were worshiping the proper biblical god.

The irony being that any Jewish scholar worth his salt will tell you that the OT is crap, you have to study the Tanakh in the original Hebrew along with the commentaries. They will also say things that would horrify Christians, like not being sure that Moses actually existed and reading the stories as allegorical.
I've yet to find a Jew who thinks dinosaurs existed a few hundred years ago.

And then of course the most basic irony that evangelical christians consider jews 'unsaved' although their idea of what 'saved' is, is based on a jewish text about jewish characters and the salvation they claim supposedly comes through a jewish 'messiah'.   

Who they force-fitted to a bunch of OT prophecies and who any self-respecting Jew will tell you is total bullshit. Then the evangelicals get their panties in a knot and go "HOW DARE YUO SAY JEWS FOR JESUS AREN'T JEWS!" Which they aren't, because worshipping a man is a form of idolatry. Big no-no in Judaism.