The Spiritual Crossroads.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I'd just like to clarify something here:  I am not going to go "help my theory along".  Frankly, I have no interest in stepping on CPD's game.  I am merely making a prediction.

I will, in fact, not be going to the board, because I am not a Pagan as the word is generally used.  Since I have no interest in Paganism - outside of Discordia - and given that Pagans invariably shit on Discordians as the "poor relations", then if I am not there to troll, there really is no reason to go.

CPD aside, I really don't like Pagans.  In fact, I'd say that I dislike them to an extreme degree, based entirely on the Pagans I have met online and IRL.  The fact that I don't show up with a flamethrower and a silly grin can be attributed to CPD being the ONE exception to that dislike.

So, go ahead and give it a shot.  But I'll be here to tell you "I told you so" when you're infracting people for not being "respectful" enough.

I hope to prove you wrong.  However I don't expect you ever to concede, and I hope you will not.  You holding up your dictum, if i ever need reminding that taking a little more power, or pulling out the banstick just this one time is not a good idea, will help things to be further from totalitarian.

I'm not proclaiming that we wont fail, in fact, we probably will.  Most forums do.  But i hope we get a few, or several good eyars before that happens.  And I hope when that happens that I can get CPD and Wyldkat to jump ship with me, or simply to relax with me and start a new, better forum.

Also, Nigel, I'll be really happy to see you, being you, on the board.  I've seen you on Pagan boards and you are by far one of the more knowledgable and interesting people on the board.  My highest moments trolling were early NyteShaed on TCC when you backed up my play about Jesus and Mary getting it on.

Don't worry. I have no problems with jumping ship or setting things on fire or simply walking away when the stupid outweighs the awesome.

If you need a respect rule to keep your constituency happy, get a new constituency.

I think if it this were a rational world, things wouldn't need to be spelled out. But one of the problems with most pagans, as you have noticed, is that they like structure and hierarchy. I'd personally like a super streamlined, simple approach but Wyldkat and Babs have a point in that some people need shit actually spelled out.

Most of the idiocy will be a self-correcting problem but for everything else, there's the reminder of our general intent and the actual rules.

Seeing whether this works out or blows up in our faces is the fun part.

Why not....try not spelling shit out?



Just a thought. I mean I did used to be one of those people, and I never had problem with a rules lite environment, just like a few others here.

You could just allowed shit to be. It's not like every other pagan forum has started that way with the same results.

We're trying to find a balance between what the three of us can agree is appropriate. I think we'll get it all figured out in time.

Appropriate wording, sorry. I missed a word. I think as far as actual rules, we're doing okay. As far as the suggestions . . . I dunno. I don't plan on being too worried about it.

[Don Coyote]

I'm having a moment of prescience and I see things going not the way you want.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd just like to clarify something here:  I am not going to go "help my theory along".  Frankly, I have no interest in stepping on CPD's game.  I am merely making a prediction.

I will, in fact, not be going to the board, because I am not a Pagan as the word is generally used.  Since I have no interest in Paganism - outside of Discordia - and given that Pagans invariably shit on Discordians as the "poor relations", then if I am not there to troll, there really is no reason to go.

CPD aside, I really don't like Pagans.  In fact, I'd say that I dislike them to an extreme degree, based entirely on the Pagans I have met online and IRL.  The fact that I don't show up with a flamethrower and a silly grin can be attributed to CPD being the ONE exception to that dislike.

So, go ahead and give it a shot.  But I'll be here to tell you "I told you so" when you're infracting people for not being "respectful" enough.

I hope to prove you wrong.  However I don't expect you ever to concede, and I hope you will not.  You holding up your dictum, if i ever need reminding that taking a little more power, or pulling out the banstick just this one time is not a good idea, will help things to be further from totalitarian.

I'm not proclaiming that we wont fail, in fact, we probably will.  Most forums do.  But i hope we get a few, or several good eyars before that happens.  And I hope when that happens that I can get CPD and Wyldkat to jump ship with me, or simply to relax with me and start a new, better forum.

Also, Nigel, I'll be really happy to see you, being you, on the board.  I've seen you on Pagan boards and you are by far one of the more knowledgable and interesting people on the board.  My highest moments trolling were early NyteShaed on TCC when you backed up my play about Jesus and Mary getting it on.

You were right, and I was happy to prove it. Everyone shut the fuck up when I provided citations about the incestuous nature of early British Isles deity myths.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Frankly, 99.7% of all people cannot handle the responsibility of running a forum without turning into a control freak, and the odds double if it's a Pagan forum, so I'm going to remain skeptical until I see it not happening.

[Freeky]

Yeah, I didn't really get my point across either, and I'm not sure how to better, so bleh.  I'm pulling for CPD, cuz she's cool, but I don't care either way. 

Is not my headache.

[Luna]

Guys...  I'm gonna give it one try...

You are trying to decide how people you haven't met yet are going to interact with each other, and deciding how to enforce that.  And you're asking HERE for input?

Seriously...  I wasn't around when the current culture of this forum was formed, but I can lay pretty good odds on this...  It is what it is because The Mgt and the mods sat back and let it BE what it is.  Rules?  (Call them "guidelines," call them "standards," nobody is fooled.)  Put in what you need to cover your ass legally, and let it be.

People can be pretty damned amazing when you give them the freedom to be.

Can they occasionally be horrible bastards, too?  Sure...  but sometimes you need a horrible bastard to butt your head against to make you think, really THINK about what you believe.

[LMNO]

Ok then.  Here's the guideline (not a rule):

III. Do Not Be a Jackass
This means, but is not limited to:
A.  Editing your messages to considerably change the content after a message can be assumed to have been read.
B.  Trolling (posting material just to stir up trouble or start flame wars).
C.  Proselytizing for any religion, except in Convert Me!.
D.  Sharing intimate personal details in inappropriate threads; there is an Adult forum for a reason. Use of gratuitous offensive language.
E.  Causing drama simply for the sake of causing drama, be it between people or between boards.
F.  Using an offensive or inappropriate username, custom title, avatar, signature, etc.

How else can we phrase this to give people an idea for the type of atmosphere we are going for and not fall under the issues you all have with it?

Why is asking for respectful behavior in a guideline a problem?

I genuinely want to know what you all have to say about these questions.

Here's what I see: "A" is the only purely objective guideline.  B-F are subjective, which means that they eventually require an Authority to make an opinioned decision whether or not there is a violation.

For example:

"B" - The stuff GIGGLES posts here could easily be seen as a trolling run.  But it's not.  That is, PD doesn't treat it as such.  I don't think GIGGLES would be welcome at your board.
"C" - Any debate regarding religion, traditions, or magick can be considered proselytizing, because if you're going to defend a position, you're also going to advocate for it.  All proselytizing is, is saying "I'm right, you're wrong" -- which is what most online debates end up being.  End result: No debating allowed.
"D" - The words "intimate", "inappropriate", and "offensive" should immediately send up red flags.  They are arbitrary and purely subjective.
"E" - Someone simply posting their Very Bad Day, or getting upset at something posted on the boards could be considered Drama for Drama's Sake.  You just have to look at some of the flare-ups here to see how easy it is to misinterpret a post as DramaWhoring.
"F" - Again, "offensive" and "inappropriate" are subject to the whims of the reader.

So, if you want these rules/suggestions/guidelines/whatever to actually have content, you need to break them down into specific objective behaviors that trigger a reaction.  Which is one reason why the PD rules seem to work well: They are based around identifiable actions that are not necessarily tied to the bias of the mods.  On the other hand, the mods are allowed to decide that a particular trigger was meant in a pranking or humorous way (Cram's SAFE FOR WORK - PROCEED WITHOUT CAUTION thread was technically spamming, but it was funny as fuck).

[Slyph]

In, not even pagan. Fuck it, it's a new board, 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"No proselytizing."

What the hell is wrong with proselytizing?

[LMNO]

"No proselytizing."

What the hell is wrong with proselytizing?

SILENCE!
    \

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

me and my now working local anesthetic think its all gonna end in tears. 

[Cainad (dec.)]

"No proselytizing."

What the hell is wrong with proselytizing?

It's a $5 word that Pagan forums love to use.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Frankly, I'd stick with the rules and get rid of the guidelines, if it was me.

Then start a thread called "Tips for n00bs" or something, that everyone can post in giving their opinion on dos and don'ts that will make new posters more socially accepted.

Because the trouble is going to come in when mods start warning/infracting people for straying out of the guidelines. In fact, the trouble comes long before that, by having "official" guidelines that other posters can point at and BAWWWW.

So, my suggestion? Have one set of rules, and have suggestions in an open thread that any user can add their two cents to, but have nothing in between.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, and the ONLY mention of "respect" should be a suggestion that says something like "if you want to be treated with respect, behave in a way that causes people to respect you".

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I am pretty much in agreement with nigel.