The Spiritual Crossroads.

[Cain]

Simple rulesets based on observable actions (ie not "intent" or subjective value judgements) are the only way to effectively manage complex systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system should give you an overview of what I mean.

Complex rulesets cannot effectively manage such dynamic systems.  Just look at TCC.  You end up having to effectively micro-manage user interactions while screening for unverifiable factors.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Simple rulesets based on observable actions (ie not "intent" or subjective value judgements) are the only way to effectively manage complex systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_adaptive_system should give you an overview of what I mean.

Complex rulesets cannot effectively manage such dynamic systems.  Just look at TCC.  You end up having to effectively micro-manage user interactions while screening for unverifiable factors.

I don't know why you have to go bringing "facts" and "reality" into things all the time.

[Cain]

I'm old-fashioned like that.

I also believe in seven course meals and putting the heads of my enemies on pikes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm old-fashioned like that.

I also believe in seven course meals and putting the heads of my enemies on pikes.

[Cain]

Traditional values are so lacking in modern society. 

[Luna]

I'm old-fashioned like that.

I also believe in seven course meals and putting the heads of my enemies on pikes.

I can appreciate a man with traditional values.

Last time we had a seven course meal, there were people packing up and leaving after the second remove.  Disgraceful, I tell you.

(And I wept when Simple Fare cut back from seven to five removes.)

[Chairman Risus]

You should make me a mod.

I honestly think you'd make a good mod if it weren't for the fact that you have personal issues with WyldKat and I.  A mod team where one member despises another one and is disgusted by a third is going to end up fighting and take that out on the members.

It's not like the mod team has to love one another, but they have to get along.

Also it's a small forum, we don't really need more than 3 mods yet.

OR your personal issues will ensure that you all balance each other out. Then you make me the "wildcard" mod to make things interesting.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You should make me a mod.

I honestly think you'd make a good mod if it weren't for the fact that you have personal issues with WyldKat and I.  A mod team where one member despises another one and is disgusted by a third is going to end up fighting and take that out on the members.

It's not like the mod team has to love one another, but they have to get along.

Also it's a small forum, we don't really need more than 3 mods yet.

OR your personal issues will ensure that you all balance each other out. Then you make me the "wildcard" mod to make things interesting.

I'd like to point out that at one time or another, almost the entire mod team here has had "personal issues" with each other.

A unified mod team is like a government in which no one disagrees. It's basically a dictatorship.

[Wyldkat]

I think I've figured out where the glitch is.  You guys are talking about the Spirit of the Forum like it is something that people are going to get bans of some type or another for.  That's not what it's there for or the point of it at all.  The idea of it is to give a general outline for new members to get a feel for the type of conduct we're hoping to have on the boards.

We cleaned it up some last night and reposted it.  I think we're going to see how things go from here and adjust as necessary.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and discussion.  PD is PD, TCC is TCC and TSC are still figuring out what they are going to be. 

[Salty]

Conduct, eh? And what if people do not conduct themselves in a manner you feel is appropriate or right or whatever? That's a word to watch for.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Conduct, eh? And what if people do not conduct themselves in a manner you feel is appropriate or right or whatever? That's a word to watch for.

That's what I'm wondering. Telling people you hope they will act in a certain way is one thing. Giving them behavioral guidelines, however, is another, as it implies that you will warn or infract them if you don't like the way things are going.

[Don Coyote]

I think I've figured out where the glitch is.  You guys are talking about the Spirit of the Forum like it is something that people are going to get bans of some type or another for.  That's not what it's there for or the point of it at all.  The idea of it is to give a general outline for new members to get a feel for the type of conduct we're hoping to have on the boards.

We cleaned it up some last night and reposted it.  I think we're going to see how things go from here and adjust as necessary.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and discussion.  PD is PD, TCC is TCC and TSC are still figuring out what they are going to be. 

Becuase it's not like anyone will cry butthurt and use the guidelines to point the finger at someone.

Are you prepared to tell someone to suck it up when they come crying to you because someone else 'broke' the guidelines?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think I've figured out where the glitch is.  You guys are talking about the Spirit of the Forum like it is something that people are going to get bans of some type or another for.  That's not what it's there for or the point of it at all.  The idea of it is to give a general outline for new members to get a feel for the type of conduct we're hoping to have on the boards.

We cleaned it up some last night and reposted it.  I think we're going to see how things go from here and adjust as necessary.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and discussion.  PD is PD, TCC is TCC and TSC are still figuring out what they are going to be. 

Becuase it's not like anyone will cry butthurt and use the guidelines to point the finger at someone.

Are you prepared to tell someone to suck it up when they come crying to you because someone else 'broke' the guidelines?

That's exactly what's going to happen, and that's what the suggestions I gave are meant to avoid.

But hey, it's your bed!

[Wyldkat]

Conduct, eh? And what if people do not conduct themselves in a manner you feel is appropriate or right or whatever? That's a word to watch for.

Honestly I was having a brain glitch and couldn't come up with a better word.

People will either not want to deal with them or will get upset with them or both and the community will work as a group to create the type of place they want to be in.  If things get REALLY against the Spirit of the Forum a mod will jump in and mention it.  If people are attacking other people it will be suggested they take it to the fight area.  If people are trying to shove their path violently down people throats they'll be pointed to "convert me".  

The spelling things out is because a lot of people do better with that.  The ones who don't probably won't read it anyway.

Becuase it's not like anyone will cry butthurt and use the guidelines to point the finger at someone.

Are you prepared to tell someone to suck it up when they come crying to you because someone else 'broke' the guidelines?

I'll actually point them to the part that says they ought to deal with the person themselves (like an adult...) first.  If they still have a problem I'll discuss growing a thicker skin and possibly have a PM conversation with the two of them.

Any they are now suggestions, not guidelines, btw.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think making them suggestions will help head off a lot of problems, because as you've seen, most people read the word "guidelines" as synonymous with "rules".

Also, forums that come off as uptight with a bunch of rules and behavior guidelines are absolute troll magnets. FYI. Forums that seem super laid-back with very hands-off mods and membership that deals with problems by either playing with or ignoring them aren't very interesting to trolls.