Why The Revolution Must Start In America

[East Coast Hustle]

What are some other solutions?  hiding inside communities of people which won't screw us is the only thing I can think of to insulate myself against the big machine... It's a form of surrender, for sure, but the horse which will carry us to revolution has been beaten to death long ago.

I don't understand the whole concept of WANTING to isolate/insulate yourself from, well, the way the world is and always has been.

I mean, yeah, it's probably not ideal. But it also never will be and never has been. And there are enough people out there enjoying their lives and creating awesomeness in spite of the Big Bad World that I have to believe that those who seek to "drop out" are mostly just pussies.

In fact, I'm going to posit that most of humanity's awesome and/or worthwhile achievements have come about BECAUSE of the Big Bad World.

[Cramulus]

I don't disagree with you that it's escapism

but it has its merits too.

When the greater body of civilization was obsessed with religion and snuffing out heretical thought, tons of good science came out of little hermited enclaves.


Let's say you've caught the 21st century identity bug, and you're obsessed with, I dunno, nonbinary gender. You want to raise your kids in a world where people understand Male and Female a little differently. The way I see it, you've got two options:

1. Change the world through the slow and soul crushing process of political action
2. Go live in a community of people that share your idea

For a lot of topics, #1 is hopeless, or a waste of time
If you want to live in another world, you can build that world within this world. There is no requirement that we all have to stay focused on the global theater. And there is some merit to isolating yourself from the predatory systems which have woven themselves into the fabric of society.

[East Coast Hustle]

No.

[Cramulus]

[East Coast Hustle]

No. There is no merit in that. There is merit in getting intimate with those predatory systems in order to better understand them, avoid their localized effects, and exert a degree of control or influence over them. Running away from shit is fine, if you're a pussy. Just make sure you stay away for good.

[Cramulus]

My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.

They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).

They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.


What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."

[trix]

My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.

They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).

They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.


What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."

QFT!

If I was to have a child, and I've thought about this a lot as I've had recent related drama, I believe the best way I would know of to raise that child with the values I believe it is important to instill in children, is to partially isolate that child from general society for potions of his/her life.  I believe the best way I could parent that child, and teach him/her how to both survive in this world, and stay a moral person with good values, is to first isolate the child from the constant daily influences provided by media and society, then introduce that child to those influences with guidance and the ability to recognize fallacy and illogic.  I'd probably end up raising a scientist, but that would be okay with me.

Or maybe I'm just insane.

[Elder Iptuous]

was it necessary for your parents to isolate you from the general society in order that you grow into the fine upstanding citizen you are today?

[East Coast Hustle]

My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.

They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).

They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.


What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."

I'm totally down with that, but choosing not to participate (or even to engage in a form of activism by declination) while remaining aware and engaged is different from running away and hiding your head in the sand, which was how I read the OP.

[Cramulus]

I agree, and I think that's a good distinction

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.

They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).

They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.


What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."

This was all the rage in the 1960's, and continues to be popular with various cults.

It's fine, as long as you keep in mind that an isolationist lifestyle will have no effect on mainstream society, and that many kids raised in isolationist communities grow up unable to cope with mainstream society, so they are only fine as long as their community of origin continues to exist.

[trix]

was it necessary for your parents to isolate you from the general society in order that you grow into the fine upstanding citizen you are today?

First, I am far from a fine upstanding citizen, and that is kind of my point.  Yes, a beautiful flower has a shot to grow well in a weed infested garden, but the fact remains that sheltering the plant from the weeds and undesirables increases the chances that the flower will grow strong and beautiful.

Second, I have a felony conviction, a body full of scars, way too much of a "gangsta" demeanor for my liking, and am only now at 27 putting my life and myself together.  I would not want my children to have to suffer what I have had to suffer to cultivate the traits I believe have merit and value.  This is, again, my point.

I grew up poor, and learned lessons like bugging Duncan Donuts at closing time to snatch the donuts they throw away every night.  How to hang out at McDonalds and wait for people with money to throw away trays of half-eaten food I could finish for them and lower my hunger pains.  I learned to sell weed, steal from those foolish enough to trust me, and skip out of school to get drunk or high and kill the feelings of unfulfillment that such a life entailed.  It wasn't until I went to prison at 19 and was released at 22 that I realized I wanted to be someone different, and had the motivation to work at it.  Now, five years later, I am* well-read, intelligent, confident, responsible, trust worthy, sympathetic, and logical.

*Compared to how I was, rather than to other people.

These are traits I value, I have strong morals, and I am on a never-ending journey of learning, experiencing, and self-improvement.  This only came about because of my Prison time.  Because I spent years kept isolated from society and it's temptations and endless "entertainment".  Time to think, and to understand.  When I re-entered society, I did so with far more wisdom then I left it with, and studied things with a level of clarity and logic I did not previously possess.  It is this that motivated me to become someone I admire, rather than someone I loathed.

My aunt and uncle live in this adorable rural community in Vermont. Their pace of life is so much different from mine, I find it refreshing to visit them.

They feel really strongly about a few issues. One of them is the Monsanto corporation. They know a lot of farmers who are angry about Monsanto and they want to help. So my aunt & uncle grow a lot of their own food. They buy the rest from local farmer's markets. If they're at a party and there is shrimp imported from Vietnam or wherever, they politely decline (they won't eat food that costs more to transport than it does to harvest).

They're raising their kids in a location where fashion, glamor, and the Society of the Spectacle isn't as prevalent. Their TV only gets 4 channels. Their Internet access is still dial-up. My cousins are somewhat out of touch with the latest movie and celebrity gossip. But it doesn't really matter - they live in a community where nobody really cares about that stuff.


What I'm getting at is that it is often quite merited to say "I'm not going to participate."

This was all the rage in the 1960's, and continues to be popular with various cults.

It's fine, as long as you keep in mind that an isolationist lifestyle will have no effect on mainstream society, and that many kids raised in isolationist communities grow up unable to cope with mainstream society, so they are only fine as long as their community of origin continues to exist.

That is often true.  In my case, in regards to raising children, I believe the key point is introducing them to mainstream society and teaching them about it with guidance and wisdom.  Isolationist societies often try to keep their children from /ever/ entering mainstream.  I think it's very important for children to experience what mainstream is like.  Not in the Amish way where the child spends time partying and having rampant sex and gains the belief that mainstream society is about those things, but with guidance and an understanding of the merits of mainstream society.  If the Amish "Rumspringa" required those that take it to enroll in a couple years of college prior to returning, I bet the return rates would be much lower, and the Amish people much more respected in general.