Build a mutant in your garage

[Doktor Howl]

[Luna]

Wait...  you mean I can't just build a Hugh Jackman Wolverine from a kit?

Shit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Frankly, at this point I have no reason to think it's anything but kind of a cute hobby for bored rich people who want to think they're fancy.

Superempowerment? Ha.

At the moment it is.  However they don't have to be that rich, it's a cute hobby for upper middle class people and rather quickly getting cheaper.

I really do think that biohacking at a scary level will be possible within a decade or so.

I think you're forgetting about the investment of time.

The upper-middle-class have jobs.

[Kai]

Frankly, at this point I have no reason to think it's anything but kind of a cute hobby for bored rich people who want to think they're fancy.

Superempowerment? Ha.

At the moment it is.  However they don't have to be that rich, it's a cute hobby for upper middle class people and rather quickly getting cheaper.

I really do think that biohacking at a scary level will be possible within a decade or so.

I think you're forgetting about the investment of time.

The upper-middle-class have jobs.

Consider how much amateur astronomers have done for astronomy, working late at night on weekends and even weeknights, taking long trips for good viewing, buying scopes and other devices.

It's the same sort of thing. I could have a PCR/gel sequencing wetlab running for a lot less than you might think. Sure, it will be slow going, but spending several nights a week working would eventually lead to skill and knowledge, which would allow pressing forward. Same as astronomy takes a great deal of time staring up at the sky night after night, looking for particular phenomena. Then, after several years, you spot a new asteroid, or discover a star that varies in brightness but isn't cataloged as variable.

Think of all the people who work during the day and yet find time to devote to their consuming passionate hobbies.

[Worm Rider]

Funny that biotechnologists think biotechnology is biology. This should be called diy biotechnology. People have always done diy biology. Humans are primates, mammals, eukaryotic organisms. Every day you take care of and feed a biological organism -yourself. Gardeners, farmers, pet owners are all diy biologists. I have an aquarium with soil and living plants and a stable population of guppies. The biological interactions going on in that one little tank would take several hundred lifetimes to describe (ballpark bullshit estimate -probably forever is more realistic). Fucking around with genes is just that. Turn your yard into a native garden with as much diversity as your climate will allow. Make your own biosphere II in a pop-up greenhouse in your back yard. Grown your own herbs and veggies. That's biology.

I guess I'm an ecologist, and ecology interests me. Biotechnology does not. Biotechnology asks "how can we apply an industrial manufacturing model to living organisms?" Ecology asks "what the fuck is going on naturally, without our fucking with it, and how can we live with it, without fucking it up?" Make a baby, that's diy biology. take a shit. Pay attention to the world around you -it's all biology. You don't need pipettes and agar. 

[Doktor Howl]

Funny that biotechnologists think biotechnology is biology. This should be called diy biotechnology. People have always done diy biology. Humans are primates, mammals, eukaryotic organisms. Every day you take care of and feed a biological organism -yourself. Gardeners, farmers, pet owners are all diy biologists. I have an aquarium with soil and living plants and a stable population of guppies. The biological interactions going on in that one little tank would take several hundred lifetimes to describe (ballpark bullshit estimate -probably forever is more realistic). Fucking around with genes is just that. Turn your yard into a native garden with as much diversity as your climate will allow. Make your own biosphere II in a pop-up greenhouse in your back yard. Grown your own herbs and veggies. That's biology.

I guess I'm an ecologist, and ecology interests me. Biotechnology does not. Biotechnology asks "how can we apply an industrial manufacturing model to living organisms?" Ecology asks "what the fuck is going on naturally, without our fucking with it, and how can we live with it, without fucking it up?" Make a baby, that's diy biology. take a shit. Pay attention to the world around you -it's all biology. You don't need pipettes and agar. 

Look, you're getting in the way of SCIENCE.

You can be a mad scientist running the train, or a pedantic ecologist on the tracks.  You choose.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Funny that biotechnologists think biotechnology is biology. This should be called diy biotechnology. People have always done diy biology. Humans are primates, mammals, eukaryotic organisms. Every day you take care of and feed a biological organism -yourself. Gardeners, farmers, pet owners are all diy biologists. I have an aquarium with soil and living plants and a stable population of guppies. The biological interactions going on in that one little tank would take several hundred lifetimes to describe (ballpark bullshit estimate -probably forever is more realistic). Fucking around with genes is just that. Turn your yard into a native garden with as much diversity as your climate will allow. Make your own biosphere II in a pop-up greenhouse in your back yard. Grown your own herbs and veggies. That's biology.

I guess I'm an ecologist, and ecology interests me. Biotechnology does not. Biotechnology asks "how can we apply an industrial manufacturing model to living organisms?" Ecology asks "what the fuck is going on naturally, without our fucking with it, and how can we live with it, without fucking it up?" Make a baby, that's diy biology. take a shit. Pay attention to the world around you -it's all biology. You don't need pipettes and agar. 

Greetings Pholgiston.

It seems to me that the activities described in ecology are now being permanently altered by the effects of biotechnology. 
Would it be up to an ecologist to determine the effects of genetic alteration and tailored hormones(or whatever else man uses biotechnology to create that was never there before) on the rest of the "natural" systems?

I believe that our attempts to industrialize life systems have caused problems that may never be remedied.
For example, I am told the prion that causes mad cow, CWD, Creutzfeldt–Jakob is naturally occuring in .X% of a mammal population, and that it collects in the less edible tissues that commonly get ground up and put in the feed for extra protein.
Worse yet I heard  it is difficult to destroy by conventional methods because it is not alive, just a nasty protein.
The systems that spread it are new and not going away anytime soon.
Without those systems the infected would just die of it and be decomposed to no great harm.

[Kai]

Funny that biotechnologists think biotechnology is biology. This should be called diy biotechnology. People have always done diy biology. Humans are primates, mammals, eukaryotic organisms. Every day you take care of and feed a biological organism -yourself. Gardeners, farmers, pet owners are all diy biologists. I have an aquarium with soil and living plants and a stable population of guppies. The biological interactions going on in that one little tank would take several hundred lifetimes to describe (ballpark bullshit estimate -probably forever is more realistic). Fucking around with genes is just that. Turn your yard into a native garden with as much diversity as your climate will allow. Make your own biosphere II in a pop-up greenhouse in your back yard. Grown your own herbs and veggies. That's biology.

I guess I'm an ecologist, and ecology interests me. Biotechnology does not. Biotechnology asks "how can we apply an industrial manufacturing model to living organisms?" Ecology asks "what the fuck is going on naturally, without our fucking with it, and how can we live with it, without fucking it up?" Make a baby, that's diy biology. take a shit. Pay attention to the world around you -it's all biology. You don't need pipettes and agar. 

Why can't we do both?

[Salty]

Not everyone can do everything, a lot of people who have one dream will lose it simply because there was more important shit to do at the time, like feed your family or not live in a car (not that I'm against living in one's car). Yeah, you should dream hard and work hard to live those dreams but it just doesn't alway work out that way. It's a luxury to be able to just go into a job and get your shit together by simply not being a dumbass...

Maybe I'm losing my point here, it's this:
People taking it upon themselves to learn and DO science is awesome, and some people want to make THINGS happen and take the time even when they don't really have any.

And they make awesome things. A lot of us do that with little things, gardening, writing, music, cooking.

Discounting the desire to DO things and learn from them make zero sense to me. They could watch TV instead, I guess.

As an aside, I would very much like some harmless technological equipment made out of meat. It's not the most stable platform but you can always grow more, better, faster, stronger. Plus, and I find this to be a particularly awesome advantage, when you're computer doesn't act the way it ought to you can give it The Fear.

[Bruno]

I just want to get high on some Arabidopsis, man.
     \

[Kai]

Not everyone can do everything, a lot of people who have one dream will lose it simply because there was more important shit to do at the time, like feed your family or not live in a car (not that I'm against living in one's car). Yeah, you should dream hard and work hard to live those dreams but it just doesn't alway work out that way. It's a luxury to be able to just go into a job and get your shit together by simply not being a dumbass...

Maybe I'm losing my point here, it's this:
People taking it upon themselves to learn and DO science is awesome, and some people want to make THINGS happen and take the time even when they don't really have any.

And they make awesome things. A lot of us do that with little things, gardening, writing, music, cooking.

Discounting the desire to DO things and learn from them make zero sense to me. They could watch TV instead, I guess.

As an aside, I would very much like some harmless technological equipment made out of meat. It's not the most stable platform but you can always grow more, better, faster, stronger. Plus, and I find this to be a particularly awesome advantage, when you're computer doesn't act the way it ought to you can give it The Fear.

I meant humans collectively. Individually we all have our own pet projects.

[Worm Rider]

Why can't we do both?
[/quote]

I guess my problem is this: I disagree with the idea that technological developments are necessary for better living. I'm a bit of a luddite in this regard. If people want to play with genes and molecules in their home labs, the I think they should go for it. I just knee jerk react against people getting too excited about technological progress. It isn't going to make your life better. It will just make new toys. It's kind of consumerist; we will have new products to buy. That's it. You don't need new toys to appreciate biology. I believe this is my point. No disrespect to all the pipette jockeys out there.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Frankly, at this point I have no reason to think it's anything but kind of a cute hobby for bored rich people who want to think they're fancy.

Superempowerment? Ha.

At the moment it is.  However they don't have to be that rich, it's a cute hobby for upper middle class people and rather quickly getting cheaper.

I really do think that biohacking at a scary level will be possible within a decade or so.

I think you're forgetting about the investment of time.

The upper-middle-class have jobs.

Consider how much amateur astronomers have done for astronomy, working late at night on weekends and even weeknights, taking long trips for good viewing, buying scopes and other devices.

It's the same sort of thing. I could have a PCR/gel sequencing wetlab running for a lot less than you might think. Sure, it will be slow going, but spending several nights a week working would eventually lead to skill and knowledge, which would allow pressing forward. Same as astronomy takes a great deal of time staring up at the sky night after night, looking for particular phenomena. Then, after several years, you spot a new asteroid, or discover a star that varies in brightness but isn't cataloged as variable.

Think of all the people who work during the day and yet find time to devote to their consuming passionate hobbies.

They're brewing beer and making yogurt.

I dunno, I'm skeptical.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not everyone can do everything, a lot of people who have one dream will lose it simply because there was more important shit to do at the time, like feed your family or not live in a car (not that I'm against living in one's car). Yeah, you should dream hard and work hard to live those dreams but it just doesn't alway work out that way. It's a luxury to be able to just go into a job and get your shit together by simply not being a dumbass...

Maybe I'm losing my point here, it's this:
People taking it upon themselves to learn and DO science is awesome, and some people want to make THINGS happen and take the time even when they don't really have any.

And they make awesome things. A lot of us do that with little things, gardening, writing, music, cooking.

Discounting the desire to DO things and learn from them make zero sense to me. They could watch TV instead, I guess.

As an aside, I would very much like some harmless technological equipment made out of meat. It's not the most stable platform but you can always grow more, better, faster, stronger. Plus, and I find this to be a particularly awesome advantage, when you're computer doesn't act the way it ought to you can give it The Fear.

I think it's neat that they want to do science for fun. Science IS fun. What I am discounting is the idea that these garage scientists are going to be creating mutants in their home laboratories, or anything even close, anytime soon.

That people are all "OH NOES, RENEGADE SCIENCE!" is what seems silly to me.

[Kai]

Not everyone can do everything, a lot of people who have one dream will lose it simply because there was more important shit to do at the time, like feed your family or not live in a car (not that I'm against living in one's car). Yeah, you should dream hard and work hard to live those dreams but it just doesn't alway work out that way. It's a luxury to be able to just go into a job and get your shit together by simply not being a dumbass...

Maybe I'm losing my point here, it's this:
People taking it upon themselves to learn and DO science is awesome, and some people want to make THINGS happen and take the time even when they don't really have any.

And they make awesome things. A lot of us do that with little things, gardening, writing, music, cooking.

Discounting the desire to DO things and learn from them make zero sense to me. They could watch TV instead, I guess.

As an aside, I would very much like some harmless technological equipment made out of meat. It's not the most stable platform but you can always grow more, better, faster, stronger. Plus, and I find this to be a particularly awesome advantage, when you're computer doesn't act the way it ought to you can give it The Fear.

I think it's neat that they want to do science for fun. Science IS fun. What I am discounting is the idea that these garage scientists are going to be creating mutants in their home laboratories, or anything even close, anytime soon.

That people are all "OH NOES, RENEGADE SCIENCE!" is what seems silly to me.

I could see certain businesses wanting it called renegade science unless housed and supported in their facility because otherwise it doesn't lead to a payoff for them. I'm thinking especially of pharma.