Booms and headshots in central Oslo

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also, Bawer does exactly what would be predicted. The beginning of the article looks like it's a introspective look into what contributions he may have had to these attacks.

Then, of course, he goes on to state that this is a blow to an urgent issue at a dangerous time, and how it's going to ruin it for other "critics of Islam."

Also, Eurospags, what can you tell me about this? I imagine that it's terribly blown out of proportion. But I imagine Islamophobia has a different kind of flavor than it does here in the US:

Muslim gay-bashing is driving gays out of Amsterdam. Muslim Jew-bashing is driving Jews out of Gothenburg, Sweden. And let's not forget about the shameful trials of politician Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and historian Lars Hedegaard in Denmark, which demonstrate how the fear of Muslim wrath is squelching the freedom of speech of those who dare to criticize Islam.

[Triple Zero]

Oh shit

Norwegian police are investigating claims by Anders Behring Breivik, who has admitted carrying out Friday's twin attacks in Norway, that he has "two more cells" working with him.

Mr Breivik made the claim at his first court hearing since the bombing in Oslo and massacre at an island youth camp.

Police have now revised down the island killings from 86 to 68 but increased the bomb death toll by one to eight.

The judge said Mr Breivik had argued that he was acting to save Norway and Europe from "Marxist and Muslim colonisation".

The gunman had said his operation was not aimed at killing as many people as possible but that he wanted to create the greatest loss possible to Norway's governing Labour Party, which he accused of failing the country on immigration.

The bomb in Oslo targeted buildings connected to the Labour Party government, and the youth camp on Utoeya island was also run by the party.

Like you said Trip, this was designed to do maximum possible damage to the Norwegian Labour Party.

I forget where or how, but I first heard this theory yesterday evening or earlier today. It sounds really plausible. Especially the older youth there were probably quite likely to fill the ranks of the real Labour Party later on in life.

...reminds me of something that Ayaan Hirsi Ali said when talking about her brief stint in the Dutch Parliament.  That the immigration laws in a lot of European countries that seem to offer more...clemency?...egress?...such as the Netherlands (and perhaps Demark, Norway and Sweden?  I confess I don't know their differences) in the 90's created less of a conducive environment for the Muslims coming in and instead created despair and cultural confusion amongst both the immigrants AND the indigenous.

Basically, the lack of forced integration meant that the Muslim families that came predominantly from African or Arab cultures were given enough freedom to try to integrate but none of the real tools with which to do so.  Their use of public funds for their care and upkeep as they struggled to find their way caused resentment amongst the European folks who were born there, and the Muslims ended up resenting the atmosphere that was so very strange from where they came but they didn't educate themselves enough to see that this difference wasn't evil or harmful to their children.

So extremism bred on both sides.

Ali's reasoning for why the government should've curtailed the immigrants' more restrictive cultural practices, especially vis a vis women and children, via legislature are seen as mightily biased and anti-Muslim.  However, I think she at least got the PROBLEM if not the SOLUTION right, to a certain degree (in other words, as far as I can fathom it with the little knowledge I have on the area).

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Even though I generally don't agree with Hirsi Ali's political viewpoints (being rather right-wing), she's not stupid.

Also, Eurospags, what can you tell me about this? I imagine that it's terribly blown out of proportion. But I imagine Islamophobia has a different kind of flavor than it does here in the US:

Muslim gay-bashing is driving gays out of Amsterdam. Muslim Jew-bashing is driving Jews out of Gothenburg, Sweden. And let's not forget about the shameful trials of politician Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and historian Lars Hedegaard in Denmark, which demonstrate how the fear of Muslim wrath is squelching the freedom of speech of those who dare to criticize Islam.

I don't know, what is the context for that quote? Muslims bashing gays in Amsterdam? Could be. Gayness is against their religion (generalisation)? I don't really understand what this quote is trying to say, though.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Its from that article mmix linked.

[Cain]

It's PROOF that the villainous Mohammedans are forcing their WAY OF LIFE over our LIBERAL and DEMOCRATIC values (and so we should exile them all to Somalia, to die painful and bloody deaths.  Just like Voltaire and John Locke would've recommended).

To be honest, that kinda stuff does happen occasionally, in the UK and so probably elsewhere.  But it's not like the local mosque will go around organizing gay-bashing expeditions, in most places.

Also, the demographic "threat" Bawer and others constantly go on about is massively overhyped as well.  Basically, every Muslim in Europe would have to have equal amounts of kids to those in Palestine and Yemen (two of the highest birthrates in the world) consistently for the next 50 years, while all of Europe would have to suffer the kind of demograhic decline Russia has supposedly suffered (I doubt the official statistics, but you know the ones I mean) during the same period.  It's a statistical impossibility, in other words.

[Triple Zero]

Anonymous is targeting the manifesto:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/anonymous-targets-norway-killers-manifesto/

Interesting idea. Not sure what to make of it, though.

[Jenne]

"Operation UnManifest"?    Interesting.  So they truly see themselves as the Super Heroes of the interbutts.

[Triple Zero]

Having thought about it, I think I know what to make of it. It's fucking stupid. Anon is supposed to know about the Streissand effect. They're just going to give it more credence.

Also, make it more stupid? Good grief. That's quite the task. Also if they end up successful (uhuh), neonazitards are going to assume that the original undamaged version was probably much better than it actually was.

But they won't succeed, they'll get bored too quickly, the original will resurface, and that's it.

[Jenne]

Yeah, I think they need to realize that powerful, swift, targeted attacks, sparsely contributed, have more effect than all the "every piece of news we have to insert ourselves into" sort of schtick they have going on at the moment.  

They must be mega-bored (even for anon).  

[Cain]

British intelligence are investigating who Breivik met with during his time in the UK.  It is known he associated with members of the EDL, who have condemned the attacks.  British papers have speculated the plot was hatched, at least in part, in London.

I hope Special Branch are not investigating, though.  Most of them are up to their necks in the News of the World corruption scandal (Special Branch being involved in "political crimes" and thus the most politically useful sources of information for Murdoch's minions) and the scandal could affect their investigation and testimony.

[MMIX]

Actually I didn't link it it was Igor

Conservative author "stunned to discover" that his book was cited by Breivik. (And his named mentioned 22 times in the manifesto).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Book is called While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam Is Destroying the West from Within.

Fortuitously while I was googling to find the original I came across this little gem:-

      

Personal message Hello, I saw this on Care2 and thought you'd like it as well. Care2 is the largest and most trusted information and action site for people who care to make a difference in their lives and the world.
   

Pat Buchanan Says Norway Shooter's Islamophobic Message Was Right

    * by Amelia T.
    * July 26, 2011
    * 9:57 am


Nobody is suggesting that the actions of Anders Behring Breivik, the man suspected of bombing several buildings in downtown Oslo and then embarking on a shooting spree at an island youth camp, were acceptable — at least, not yet.  But a disturbing number of people are stepping forward to defend Breivik's message, and to label him a violent but prophetic herald of the coming struggle between Muslims and Europeans.

Pat Buchanan, in a piece for The American Conservative, is the latest to declare that the real threat to Europe is not "native born and homegrown terrorism.  That threat," he continues, "comes from a burgeoning Muslim presence in a Europe that has never known mass immigration, its failure to assimilate, its growing alienation, and its sometime sympathy for Islamic militants and terrorists."

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/pat-buchanan-says-norway-shooters-islamophobic-message-was-right.html#ixzz1TEaPadoc

[Cain]

Surprise!  Crazy old racist loon who idolises Prussian militarism thinks Muslims are infecting the pale, flabby underbelly of Europe (ignore that Muslims have been in Europe for 1400 years).

[Jenne]

Yes, but Cain, these are the wrong kind of Muslims.

[Cain]

In Buchanan's world, that is all of them.

[Jenne]

Point.  Same with gays, African-Americans...non-Christians of ANY kind...secularists...

[Lenin McCarthy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler
Glenn Beck likens Norwegian dead to Hitler youth

Glenn Beck, the rightwing US broadcaster and Tea Party favourite, has compared those who were massacred on the Norwegian island of Utøya to the Nazi party's youth wing.

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like the Hitler youth, or, whatever. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics. Disturbing," said Beck on his syndicated radio show.

The Tea Party, apparently. For kids aged 8-12. To me that sounds somewhat more disturbing.