Rape

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

There's an article about male rape in the NYT today:

www.nytimes.com/2012/01/24/health/as-victims-men-struggle-for-rape-awareness.html?_r=1&hpw

Eugene Porter, a therapist in Oakland, Calif., and the author of the book "Treating the Young Male Victim of Sexual Assault," said that while some assailants seek power and dominance, others "find that aggression enhances their sexual experience."

"There is no arena in which rape takes place between men and women that it does not take place between men and men," he said.

Like women, men who are raped feel violated and ashamed and may become severely depressed or suicidal. They are at increased risk for substance abuse, problems with interpersonal relationships, physical impairments, chronic pain, insomnia and other health problems.

But men also face a challenge to their sense of masculinity. Many feel they should have done more to fight off their attackers. Since they may believe that men are never raped, they may feel isolated and reluctant to confide in anyone. Male rape victims may become confused about their sexual orientation or, if gay and raped by a man, blame their sexual orientation for the rape.

"If you're sexually assaulted, there's this idea that you're no longer a man," said Neil Irvin, executive director of the organization Men Can Stop Rape. "The violence is ignored, and your sexual orientation and gender are confronted."

Many rape crisis centers — which often also provide services for victims of domestic violence — do not have the resources to counsel male victims. Remarkably few male victims seek professional help for injuries, screening for sexually transmitted diseases or counseling after an attack, often waiting years or decades.

Also of interest is a link to this article about expanding the legal definition of rape, which apparently hasn't changed since the 1930's.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm really glad that's being more openly discussed these days... I feel like so much attention is given to relatively meaningless "education" such as "yes means yes" (the idea that you can somehow prevent rape if you make sure the other person is sober and explicitly says yes before you have sex... which, basically, means that people who weren't going to commit rape in the first place will also go through this awkward and offputting conversation prior to having sex) rather than investigating the key question, which is what are the cultural conditions which create rape, and how can we change them? I suspect that the power dynamic of the ownership/entitlement culture is a factor. I would be interested in seeing if there are statistic that might correlate with my suspicion... maybe I'll see if I can look those up tomorrow.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

I'm really glad that's being more openly discussed these days... I feel like so much attention is given to relatively meaningless "education" such as "yes means yes" (the idea that you can somehow prevent rape if you make sure the other person is sober and explicitly says yes before you have sex... which, basically, means that people who weren't going to commit rape in the first place will also go through this awkward and offputting conversation prior to having sex) rather than investigating the key question, which is what are the cultural conditions which create rape, and how can we change them? I suspect that the power dynamic of the ownership/entitlement culture is a factor. I would be interested in seeing if there are statistic that might correlate with my suspicion... maybe I'll see if I can look those up tomorrow.

A lot of the educational campaigns I see seem aimed at "clearing up any confusion". To my mind, the notion that there is any confusion is just fucked up and wrong. The only appropriate reaction to rape is moral outrage...complete fucking intolerance. There are no excuses, there are no mitigating circumstances, there is no confusion.

"No means no" is fine for educational purposes if the message it's conveying is that it's well within your rights to shoot to kill once you've said no, but to convey the message that rape is sometimes a misunderstanding over consent is just foul--like it's an accident or something. "Only you can prevent forest fires" is not a litany against arson.

[Golden Applesauce]

I'm really glad that's being more openly discussed these days... I feel like so much attention is given to relatively meaningless "education" such as "yes means yes" (the idea that you can somehow prevent rape if you make sure the other person is sober and explicitly says yes before you have sex... which, basically, means that people who weren't going to commit rape in the first place will also go through this awkward and offputting conversation prior to having sex)...

A lot of the educational campaigns I see seem aimed at "clearing up any confusion". To my mind, the notion that there is any confusion is just fucked up and wrong. The only appropriate reaction to rape is moral outrage...complete fucking intolerance. There are no excuses, there are no mitigating circumstances, there is no confusion.

"No means no" is fine for educational purposes if the message it's conveying is that it's well within your rights to shoot to kill once you've said no, but to convey the message that rape is sometimes a misunderstanding over consent is just foul--like it's an accident or something. "Only you can prevent forest fires" is not a litany against arson.

I wonder if the "clearing up confusion" style campaigns don't create more confusion than they resolve.  My old college (Catholic, very high drinking / party rates) had a campaign called "Can I Kiss You?", the content of which is exactly that kind of awkwardness you'd expect from the title.  One of the follow up pieces was a talk targeted at date rape - I don't remember the specifics, but what the students walked away with was "if the girl's had a beer, then it's rape."  (Naturally, nothing on what happens if the guy's been drinking, or if both participants are the same sex.)

Given that we had anti-drinking posters along the lines of "2/3rds of students don't start drinking on Thursday," that definition would classify pretty much every sex act performed on campus as date rape.  It became sort of a running joke - for months after, my roommates' girlfriend would say "I'm trying to rape youuuu" in a cutesy voice every time she handed him a beer.  I think the goal might have been to scare students out of having sex at all (you might accidentally commit a rape, and then end up on the sexual predator list forever!) but the end result was that nobody could take date rape seriously afterwards.  Which is a shame, because we really did have a date rape problem.

That sort of "awareness" makes it really easy to sell the lie that rape other than the "violent assault" style is just a modern feminist invention.

And even now, every time I see rape statistics, I wonder if they included "sex after a beer" just to make the numbers look more impressive.

GA,
doesn't drink or talk to girls

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

The most terrifying thing I ever heard on the subject of rape was a friend of mine in college who said flat out she would absolutely lie about someone raping her if she thought they deserved it. She was pre-law.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The most terrifying thing I ever heard on the subject of rape was a friend of mine in college who said flat out she would absolutely lie about someone raping her if she thought they deserved it. She was pre-law.

Get better friends.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

The most terrifying thing I ever heard on the subject of rape was a friend of mine in college who said flat out she would absolutely lie about someone raping her if she thought they deserved it. She was pre-law.

Get better friends.

Yeah we don't hang out no more.

[Pæs]

not sure if there's a more recent thread on this subject, but I just came across this very interesting article:

http://fuckyeahfemalemarines.tumblr.com/post/12766127286/to-all-those-men-who-dont-think-the-rape-jokes-are-a

It's about why rape jokes are always bad and while feminists don't actually believe that "all men are rapists", all rapists actually DO believe this.

I'm doing a stand-up set at a local comedy club where rape jokes are pretty commonly thrown around and almost as regularly accepted. The comedian occasionally loses the audience for being too "ick" about it, so I'm trying to work out a way to mention some of the stuff from the quoted post. I would ideally like to do this without just bitching at the crowd about it.

Anyone got any brilliant ideas for delivery of this material? The format I'm working on at the moment is telling a terrible rape joke and (hopefully) when the audience laughs, ripping into them for being monsters and hoping it's funny rather than ranty and annoying.

[minuspace]

I think that in particular, the male aversion to the subject of rape is rooted in fear. Fear of being like a rapist, fear of their own sexuality as a male, fear of becoming involuntarily aroused by the thought of rape (many perfectly normal men do), fear of what that means, fear of having something in common with the rapist. So they run away and avoid the subject.

This, and that episode of Portlandia "cacao" 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Men are monsters. Or, at least, a part of them is. Most if not all men I expect but I don't got the statistics to back that up. Thing is a lot of men (the majority I'd like to think) have control over this monster. Some don't or some lose it for whatever reason, alcohol, obsession, moment of weakness. When that monster gets loose that's when it happens. I wish I had a solution or something, cos it's bang out of order but I got nothing other than my sympathy for someone who is on the receiving end of shit that I can't really understand, can't really relate to on any level other than it sounds like a really shit thing to go through. Generally more emotionally damaging than physically, as far as I've heard. I can relate to emotional and mental damage. To have something like that inflicted on me by some fuckhead? Yeah I can see how that could really fuck me up worse than a car crash or some other kind of physical crap.

I dunno about the statistics for the how's and when's and why's but I expect the situations vary from the one-off, drunken grope turning into "what the fuck do you mean no?" to the serial stalker doing all the sneaky cat burglar shit you see in the movies and all points in between. I despise them for their weakness in letting the monster take control (it's not difficult to keep in check, most of us manage that just fine) or, in some cases, for becoming the monster. For letting it consume them. Fuck those bastards especially.

I disagree completely. I think that one of the damaging stereotypes surrounding rape is that all men are just barely in control of their base instincts, and that therefore by tempting them, women can turn a good man into a rapist. The truth is, most men are not rapists and could not under any normal circumstances be turned into rapists. Most rapes are premeditated and carefully planned, not spontaneous.

Just started reading this thread, and I gotta say I think Nigel is dead on. Rape apparently exists in most societies and I think says much more about someone having a serious psychological problem, rather than it being 'normal' in any way shape or form.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm really glad that's being more openly discussed these days... I feel like so much attention is given to relatively meaningless "education" such as "yes means yes" (the idea that you can somehow prevent rape if you make sure the other person is sober and explicitly says yes before you have sex... which, basically, means that people who weren't going to commit rape in the first place will also go through this awkward and offputting conversation prior to having sex) rather than investigating the key question, which is what are the cultural conditions which create rape, and how can we change them? I suspect that the power dynamic of the ownership/entitlement culture is a factor. I would be interested in seeing if there are statistic that might correlate with my suspicion... maybe I'll see if I can look those up tomorrow.

"I have NEEDS".
Not "wants". "NEEDS". Like they're stealing food for the kids or something, FFS.

[LMNO]

As an aside... "yes means yes"?  When did that start happening?  My stint through an ultra-PC college campus was still based on "no means no" -- educating people that they needed to control their hormones to shut it down if consent was either not offered, or withdrawn at any point. 

At the time I was there, it seemed the goal of rape education was focused on giving boys who didn't know better a reality check, and girls the power of NO.  I know Antioch took it over the top with the whole "may I raise the level of intimacy" thing, but it just feels to me that "yes means yes" just isn't the right way to do it.

[Doktor Howl]

I know Antioch took it over the top with the whole "may I raise the level of intimacy" thing,

What? 

THAT'S ROMANCE RIGHT THERE, THAT IS!

[Elder Iptuous]

Romance is important.
that's why i always use a flowery embossed letterhead for the affidavit that i have the young lady sign.

[Doktor Howl]

Romance is important.
that's why i always use a flowery embossed letterhead for the affidavit that i have the young lady sign.