ATTN: LMNO PEE: I IZ TOO STOOPID TO "GET" AUTECHRE

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

a flower is made with a very specific purpose in mind.  It's a display created to facilitate reproduction, and in that it is not that different from many love songs and other pieces of art.  I think a flower is art, the intended audience is a pollinator, not us, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate it.

This whole statement hinges on the existence of a Creator.

[Epimetheus]

Art implies an intent to convey something.

Does it? I would say, for the most part, "art" is simply applied to the created object itself, implying nothing except that it was indeed created by someone (maybe with the intent to create  , but nothing more).

a flower is made with a very specific purpose in mind.  It's a display created to facilitate reproduction, and in that it is not that different from many love songs and other pieces of art.  I think a flower is art, the intended audience is a pollinator, not us, but that doesn't mean we can't appreciate it.

This whole statement hinges on the existence of a Creator.

Yeah, agreed. To change your words, BH, a flower develops with a specific way of interacting with the world. You could say it's created in a conceptual way, y'know, by the Forces of Nature or something, but to say it is in reality created, implies a Creator. Actually, saying it conceptually or literally are effectively the same, so I take that back. I guess it comes down to defining your terms, as always.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

This might all come down to how one defines "consciousness", whether things like jasmine releasing fragrance in the evening are "conscious". I don't know.

And not to derail, but I read somewhere that what Pollock was actually doing was painting subjects, people, horses, etc., he just held the brush at a distance and splattered to do it. But I've looked at his stuff and I can't find anything.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If flowers attracting bees is art, then dogs fucking is also art. So is taking a shit, or any other biological function.

[Telarus]

Art started amongst us primates as purely representational (stone-age through hellenic period). It has evolved enough that we can represent (extremely) abstract thoughts and emotions, so much so that it requires various degrees of viewer participation in order for the act of viewing to generate meaning.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Art implies an intent to convey something.

Does it? I would say, for the most part, "art" is simply applied to the created object itself, implying nothing except that it was indeed created by someone (maybe with the intent to create  , but nothing more).

That is far too broad a definition IMO, because it implies that everything from the shirt you're wearing to the keyboard you're typing on is art.

It's very difficult to pin down a definition of art, but in my field, which falls under the umbrella of arts & crafts, art is loosely defined as the original execution of a design, while craft is the reproduction of existing designs using learned techniques.

[Epimetheus]

Art implies an intent to convey something.

Does it? I would say, for the most part, "art" is simply applied to the created object itself, implying nothing except that it was indeed created by someone (maybe with the intent to create  , but nothing more).

That is far too broad a definition IMO, because it implies that everything from the shirt you're wearing to the keyboard you're typing on is art.

It's very difficult to pin down a definition of art, but in my field, which falls under the umbrella of arts & crafts, art is loosely defined as the original execution of a design, while craft is the reproduction of existing designs using learned techniques.

Fair enough. As far as technical definitions go I think that may be the best I've heard. Thanks! 
I was speaking of the common usage of the word, which is often applied to any created object or even activity, usually to imply a sense of skill or technique. "The Art of War," for example. People often call any object they find pretty, a work of art.
I think my personal favorite (non-technical) definition, is Louis Nizer's "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; but a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist."

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The origin of the word art denotes a learned skill, so that is also accurate. Many words have more than one meaning.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

If flowers attracting bees is art, then dogs fucking is also art. So is taking a shit, or any other biological function.

Troof.

Would you say it's a once-removed thing, like Marcel Duchamp calling a urinal a fountain?

Seriously asking, because I'm not sure where the line is.

[P3nT4gR4m]

There is no line. just when you think there is, someone will cross it.

[Cainad (dec.)]

"Art" is a concept invented by brilliant trolls of a bygone age, who decided to create a word that would enter common parlance but remain vaguely defined. The results speak for themselves.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

There is no line. just when you think there is, someone will cross it.

"Art" is a concept invented by brilliant trolls of a bygone age, who decided to create a word that would enter common parlance but remain vaguely defined. The results speak for themselves.

Ah. Those make sense. 

[Sir Squid Diddimus]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread cause I have to go to work, but I can say, if you understand or "get" synth, then this kind of stuff is easily appreciated. If your mind works in a very normal musical pattern, (like perfect pitch and all that) you probably won't get it at all.

It's all sine waves, strange beats that shouldn't exist and impossible note combinations with glitch.

Personally I love it cause it's as calm and serene as new york city. Amidst all the chaos, hustle and bustle there's a pattern or a flow. There's a low hum like the hive and the noise is the bees buzzing around it. Inside is a sweet sweet honey. You just have to be brave enough to close your eyes and stick your hand in there.

This is one of my favs--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hKJnQqVsqw&feature=related

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Squid's has a beat. The one in the first post sounded like somebody trying to tune a staticy radio with a cracked speaker.

[Epimetheus]

Nope, there's a beat in that one too.