Perry: Government you can TRUST.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I'm not arguing for intelligent Design, it's a fundamentally flawed approach.  But it is distinctly different from creationism in that they aren't saying everything is the way it is because made it that way in the beginning.  It allows for the modification of species and assumes genetic inheritance in the same way that evolutionary theory does.  The difference is where the modifications in genetic inheritance come from, to a Darwinian they are the result of random mutation and survival of the fittest, to an ID advocate they are the result of god's hand.

It's basically an attempt by Christians to explain why you can't experience the invisible dragon in any way other than sight, without resorting to silly stuff like "god put dinosaur bones underground that appear to be millions of years old just to trick you"  not that the idea of god tinkering with dna is all that much less silly, but it is silly in a more subtle way.

Bullshit. The story of Cain finding a wife among the others automatically disputes your claim. I can counter the myth with another one, that there was more than one creator and they were in a pissing contest and each made people. One wasn't arrogant enough to claim perfection right out of the clay and allowed people to evolve at a normal pace. Where does that leave us?

huh?  I think you are talking right past me.  Cain finding a wife east of Eden counters the creationist theory, it doesn't really touch ID.  ID isn't an origin theory, it's an evolutionary one, focusing on how things develop and how they are developing.

[Don Coyote]

Honestly, you guys want rational discourse from murderraper?

[Adios]

I'm not arguing for intelligent Design, it's a fundamentally flawed approach.  But it is distinctly different from creationism in that they aren't saying everything is the way it is because made it that way in the beginning.  It allows for the modification of species and assumes genetic inheritance in the same way that evolutionary theory does.  The difference is where the modifications in genetic inheritance come from, to a Darwinian they are the result of random mutation and survival of the fittest, to an ID advocate they are the result of god's hand.

It's basically an attempt by Christians to explain why you can't experience the invisible dragon in any way other than sight, without resorting to silly stuff like "god put dinosaur bones underground that appear to be millions of years old just to trick you"  not that the idea of god tinkering with dna is all that much less silly, but it is silly in a more subtle way.

Bullshit. The story of Cain finding a wife among the others automatically disputes your claim. I can counter the myth with another one, that there was more than one creator and they were in a pissing contest and each made people. One wasn't arrogant enough to claim perfection right out of the clay and allowed people to evolve at a normal pace. Where does that leave us?

huh?  I think you are talking right past me.  Cain finding a wife east of Eden counters the creationist theory, it doesn't really touch ID.  ID isn't an origin theory, it's an evolutionary one, focusing on how things develop and how they are developing.

Check, so that leaves us with interspecies procreation.

[Adios]

Honestly, you guys want rational discourse from murderraper?

Not really, I just got tired of the bullshit claim that they were different things.

[BabylonHoruv]

Honestly, you guys want rational discourse from murderraper?

Not really, I just got tired of the bullshit claim that they were different things.

They are different things.  How does Cain finding a wife have anything at all to do with the theory that god effects evolution in an active way?

You are insisting on conflating creationism, which is an origin theory, with ID which is an evolutionary theory and that means that if you get into a debate with someone who actually believes in ID you will come off as ignorant.

[Juana]

My dad used to say, "The entire field of biology, with all it's advancements, discoveries, and innovations, is ultimately based on evolution.  There is no meaningful argument against evolutionary theory."

I dunno if that's precisely true (paging Kai), but it makes a lot of sense.  Science is connected.  If you deny evolution, you have to re-explain everything that's been built off of it.

It is. Frankly, there wasn't biology before 1859. Once we knew that species changed over time, and that the mechanism was natural selection, life started to make sense. After the Mendelian and molecular revolutions, it /really/ started to make sense, because then we not only knew how changes occurred, but where inherited variation originated (i.e. DNA).

The great geneticist Theodosius Dobzansky said, "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution", and he was a theist. It's basically like claiming geocentrism is the best supported cosmological model. It's /way/ out there. Any biologist who doesn't accept it...wait, lets put it this way. A person who doesn't accept decent with modification cannot be a biologist in any real sense of the word. It's that essential.

This is why the difference between creationism and intelligent design matters.

Intelligent design includes descent with modification.  Creationism does not.

Oh my fucking god, BH! Give it up already! It's creationism dressed up in a lab coat. End of goddamn story.

[Adios]

Honestly, you guys want rational discourse from murderraper?

Not really, I just got tired of the bullshit claim that they were different things.

They are different things.  How does Cain finding a wife have anything at all to do with the theory that god effects evolution in an active way?

You are insisting on conflating creationism, which is an origin theory, with ID which is an evolutionary theory and that means that if you get into a debate with someone who actually believes in ID you will come off as ignorant.

Okay, you just crossed a line pal. Now, go fuck yourself you ignorant ass. If anyone is conflating anything it is you and your ignorant defense of attempting to separate ID from creationism.

[LMNO]

Can we get Cain and Kai back in here, and ignore BH?  I preferred what was happening in this thread before the creationist spoke up.

[PopeTom]

Prophecy:

Economic and social sciences finally discover functional scientific models.

This creates a tribe of "folk economists" who prefer the old methods and ignore the contemporary scientific findings. Economic homeopaths, if you will.

I'm sorry but I only practice organic economics.  I'm thinking if all goes well then next year I'll experiment with raw organic economics to see if it's as viable and healthy as I think it is.

[PopeTom]

I'm not arguing for intelligent Design, it's a fundamentally flawed approach.  But it is distinctly different from creationism in that they aren't saying everything is the way it is because made it that way in the beginning.  It allows for the modification of species and assumes genetic inheritance in the same way that evolutionary theory does.  The difference is where the modifications in genetic inheritance come from, to a Darwinian they are the result of random mutation and survival of the fittest, to an ID advocate they are the result of god's hand.

It's basically an attempt by Christians to explain why you can't experience the invisible dragon in any way other than sight, without resorting to silly stuff like "god put dinosaur bones underground that appear to be millions of years old just to trick you"  not that the idea of god tinkering with dna is all that much less silly, but it is silly in a more subtle way.

Bullshit. The story of Cain finding a wife among the others automatically disputes your claim. I can counter the myth with another one, that there was more than one creator and they were in a pissing contest and each made people. One wasn't arrogant enough to claim perfection right out of the clay and allowed people to evolve at a normal pace. Where does that leave us?

Uh, I wasn't informed of this....

Quit yer bitching and spread your seed to the four corners of the earth!!!!

[Doktor Howl]

Can we get Cain and Kai back in here, and ignore BH?  I preferred what was happening in this thread before the creationist spoke up.

This.

How long are you guys going to pay attention to that asshole?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Can we get Cain and Kai back in here, and ignore BH?  I preferred what was happening in this thread before the creationist spoke up.

This.

How long are you guys going to pay attention to that asshole?

Tune his ass out. It works.

[BabylonHoruv]

Honestly, you guys want rational discourse from murderraper?

Not really, I just got tired of the bullshit claim that they were different things.

They are different things.  How does Cain finding a wife have anything at all to do with the theory that god effects evolution in an active way?

You are insisting on conflating creationism, which is an origin theory, with ID which is an evolutionary theory and that means that if you get into a debate with someone who actually believes in ID you will come off as ignorant.

Okay, you just crossed a line pal. Now, go fuck yourself you ignorant ass. If anyone is conflating anything it is you and your ignorant defense of attempting to separate ID from creationism.

ook ook

[Adios]

Can we get Cain and Kai back in here, and ignore BH?  I preferred what was happening in this thread before the creationist spoke up.

This.

How long are you guys going to pay attention to that asshole?

I'm done.

[Luna]

Ron Paul just kicked Perry in the balls...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20102135-503544.html

Shit's gonna get nasty.