OK, so Libya vindicates the "Afghan model" of warfare*

[Cain]

More brown refugees trying to get into Europe, pissing off France, Italy, Germany, Spain, Denmark and the UK.

At they very worst, they might intervene in order to prevent more migration...beyond that, the impact would be pretty minimal.  Oh, a rise in oil and gas prices as well, but that happens pretty much at random now, anyway.

[Adios]

That's about what I figured. Unless the Empire I live in decides to go play tough guy.

[Cain]

David Cameron is intent on securing more voters....for the Labour Party

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15070911

Sailors who took part in the Libya campaign will be among hundreds of Royal Navy personnel to learn they are being made redundant later this week.

Dozens of sailors from HMS Cumberland, which rescued Britons from Libya in February, could be affected, along with those on other ships that took part.

Personnel not on or preparing for deployment are eligible for redundancy.

Up to 400 compulsory redundancies are expected in the Ministry of Defence's first round of 1,100 navy job losses.

Plymouth-based HMS Cumberland, which was decommissioned in June, was the first UK warship sent to Libya earlier in the year.

'Uncertain future'

An MoD spokeswoman said: "Only those who have returned from operations and have taken all their operational leave" had been considered for redundancy.

"We need to structure our forces to ensure that they are sufficiently flexible and adaptable to meet the demands of an uncertain future.

"The decisions we are making are not easy but they will help to defend the UK, protect our interests overseas and enable us to work effectively with allies and partners to deliver greater security and stability in the wider world."

The next set of redundancies are due in March, as the Royal Navy cuts its numbers by 5,000 to 30,000 by 2015.

Under the Strategic Defence and Security Review announced last year, the Ministry of Defence is to cut numbers by 22,000 across all three military services.

In a way, this makes me put the Tories above the likes of the Republican Party.  The Tories really, vehemently believe they need to reduce the deficit, and are inflicting pain all over the place in order to do so, including in our military forces.

The Republicans are like "cut spending and cut taxes lol" because they don't give a fuck.  Magic pixies will pay off the national debt, so long as they are appeased by sacrifical rites to bring about "small government".

Still, sucks to be a sailor right now.

[Scribbly]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a deliberate move by the Ministry of Defence to try and turn the public away from Cameron.

On the other hand, that doesn't make it any better. You'd think that our politicians would at least be competent at, you know, politics, being completely unable to do any other job, and therefore would take steps to try and avoid this kind of insane PR blunder.

Maybe he thinks that throwing people who just risked their lives for him to the wolves will get the public on side because he clearly is taking tough decisions. I'd like to think he's not that stupid. But he does seem determined to prove me wrong on that front.

[Cain]

Very possible that this an MoD move.  They're very unhappy with all the cuts, coming on top of a decade of total conflict and a probable further 30 years (at least) of global instability, and this is definitely one way to throw Cameron under a patriotic bus.

Cameron is himself a PR man, I cannot see him, personally making a blunder this severe.  Liam "I'm hiding from Gaddafi's assassins" Fox, on the other hand, I could.

[Cain]

Looks like NATO finally realized the GCG might be playing them in Libya:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/qatar-interfering-libya

Western diplomats say Arab state is bypassing international agreements, to pursue its own agenda

The tiny Arab emirate of Qatar, a leading supporter of the revolution in Libya, has been accused by western diplomats of interfering in the country's sovereignty.

The claims come amid growing concern among Libyans in the National Transitional Council (NTC) and western officials that Qatar, which supplied arms to Libyan revolutionaries, is pursuing its own postwar agenda at the cost of wider efforts to bring political stability to the country.

Concern has been mounting over the last month that Qatar is bypassing an internationally agreed assistance strategy to Libya to throw its support behind individuals and factions contributing to the continuing political instability.

A senior diplomat said: "There is a question now about what foreign players like Qatar are doing in Libya – whether it is being helpful and respectful of Libyan sovereignty. "Qatar is not being respectful, and there is a feeling that it is riding roughshod over the issue of the country's sovereignty."

Another diplomatic source said: "This is an issue that has been building steam for some weeks." All foreign powers with an interest in Libya, among which are the US, Britain and France, have had their own agendas. However, the source said: "There is a feeling that Qatar has been providing money and support to certain individuals."

At the centre of concerns are allegations that, rather than supporting the NTC, Qatar has chosen to back favoured key figures with financial and other resources. Most prominent among these woulld be the Islamist head of Tripoli's military council, Abdul-Aziz Belhaj.


Qatar earned substantial gratitude from many in Libya for its early support of the revolution against Muammar Gaddafi's rule. Its air force joined a UN no-fly zone while it also helped rebels sell oil.

Qatar is also widely credited with having helped supply revolutionaries with much-needed weapons during the uprising, including modern Belgian-made FN assault rifles and Milan anti-tank rockets.

Qatar has long had a cautious but active foreign policy that typically focused on negotiation and mediation. Since the Arab spring it has taken a more aggressive regional role, most notably over Libya.

Media reports have also suggested that Qatari special forces helped train rebels in the Nafusa mountains, flying some unit commanders to Qatar for training.

Of particular concern over the last month has been how Qatar has chosen to throw its weight behind a group of Libyan individuals including Sheikh Ali Salabi, a Libyan cleric who resides in Doha and has close relations with Belhaj.

There has been the growing friction between Salabi and the NTC's interim prime minister, Mahmoud Jibril. Salabi has appeared on television to suggest Jibril is a "tyrant in waiting".

Basically, the way I see it is that the Gulf Cooperation Group is using Salabi and his Al-Qaeda assets to pursue a distinctly Sunni agenda in North Africa.  We may see this pattern repeat itself in Syria, though I very much doubt the GCG would move openly to topple Assad without Western military backing - which may not be forthcoming.

[Cain]

Sirte has fallen.  NTC are claiming to have caught Gaddafi alive, but wounded.  Other reports are claiming Gaddafi is dead.

This would explain why Sirte fought so hard, if it is indeed the case.

[The Rev]

Last report I heard was he died from wounds, but the dust needs to settle for the reports to be blindly accepted.

[Doktor Howl]

Last report I heard was he died from wounds, but the dust needs to settle for the reports to be blindly accepted.

So far, every source I've read or heard cites The Daily Mail, so I'm gonna hang on.

[Payne]

Last report I heard was he died from wounds, but the dust needs to settle for the reports to be blindly accepted.

So far, every source I've read or heard cites The Daily Mail, so I'm gonna hang on.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live

Putting it all together seems to indicate he really is done, and is even as we speak enjoying a nubile infested afterlife.

[Cain]

NTC have announced he was killed.

[Mangrove]

If he's not dead, he certainly looks 'unwell'.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/warning-graphic-photo-moammar-gadhafi/story?id=14777830

NSFW if your employer doesn't want you looking at bloodied corpses of deposed dictators. Otherwise, have at it.

[Luna]

And, leave it Fox News to spin the death of Gaddafi as somehow BAD news, and a goof on Obama's part.

Jon Stewart tells it:

http://gawker.com/5851978/jon-stewart-left-dumbfounded-by-republican-reaction-to-gaddafis-death

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And, leave it Fox News to spin the death of Gaddafi as somehow BAD news, and a goof on Obama's part.

Jon Stewart tells it:

http://gawker.com/5851978/jon-stewart-left-dumbfounded-by-republican-reaction-to-gaddafis-death

They're trying sooo hard.

[Cain]

Gadaffi's death is bad, but not from the viewpoint of the USA's government, past and present.

Think about how much Gadaffi knew re: the War on Terror.  How many people we renditioned to be tortured in his jails.  The testimony of captured Libyan Islamists was crucial in building a case for the Iraq War, especially Ibn Sheikh al-Libi, who was "suicided" in a Libyan prison in 2009.  One of the rebel leaders, Abdel Hakim Belhaj, is a known Al-Qaeda ally who was tortured by the Libyan intelligence services, while being questioned by the CIA and MI6.

Gadaffi knew where the bodies were buried, and the names of government officials and intelligence agents who were working on their particular cases.  And the notorious blabbermouth would've made allegations at the Hague, and they would have been investigated.

So it's no surprise that, when Gadaffi was captured, there happened to be a mystery assailant who was a very good shot with a 9mm pistol close enough to make sure the Diva of Tripoli couldn't make any unfortunate accusations.

This was a clean-up operation, the moral equivalent of a Mafia hit on their own hired killers after completing an especially dirty job.  Nothing more.  Bury the leads, leave no traces.