Something I don't get

[Adios]

I'd like to point out that no social collapse since the fall of the Roman Empire has led to a long-term decline in key indictators of health, education, energy consumption and other similar factors on a global or even continental level.

Sometimes they dip down for a few decades, but the overall progression is in an upwards direction.

Agreed, but don't you think we are in a different era now, the entire globe is so united in things, especially economics. If the dollar were to collapse before being replaced with other currency as the world currency there would be horrific ripple effects worldwide. Sure, the worst by far would be within the US though.

Hell, life saving drugs are suffering shortages here even now, because the bottom line doesn't show enough profit. Our education system has been so diluted and politically manipulated as to render it nearly useless, not to mention that recently it has become so short funded that it is a wonder it even functions at all.

[Cain]

Uh, these historical collapses I'm talking about include all of China being overrun by Genghis Khan's hordes, and the Black Death.

A currency collapse simply cannot compare.  Create a new currency, adjust economic incentives and expectations accordingly and carry on.

Sure, it'll probably result in assassinations, coups, strikes, riots and maybe a few instances of intra-state war.  But it won't be Mad Max.  Life will go on.

[LMNO]

I've been saying - we can't really change where the Machine is headed (unless we organize into larger groups).

So if you're not into Fighting The Good Fight (few people are, these days), the best way to prepare for the coming National 1976NYC zone is to build a little island where your friends and family can sustain themselves. And I don't mean a literal island - I mean you have to figure out how to flourish and support each other without any buying power. For us individuals, salvation is not going to come from the top of the pyramid. It's going to come from our communities and neighborhoods.

I see where you're going with this, Cram -- Smart people will begin to build community networks and neighborhood support groups.  The rampant isolation and individualism we see today will have to take a back seat to working together IRL to get by.

[Cain]

State doesn't like people trying to opt-out.  More than a few such groups get infiltrated by the likes of the FBI etc who then use the usual tactics to spread dissension and mistrust throughout the ranks.

When you're opting out, you're actually making a very powerful and potentially dangerous political statement.  Just saying.

[LMNO]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

[Adios]

Uh, these historical collapses I'm talking about include all of China being overrun by Genghis Khan's hordes, and the Black Death.

A currency collapse simply cannot compare.  Create a new currency, adjust economic incentives and expectations accordingly and carry on.

Sure, it'll probably result in assassinations, coups, strikes, riots and maybe a few instances of intra-state war.  But it won't be Mad Max.  Life will go on.

I agree it will be nothing resembling Mad Max. I could see states citing a failed Fed and declaring independence and seceding from the Union. I don't see that as a bad thing either.

[Cain]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

I assumed Cram was talking more along the lines of John Robb's sustainable communities.

[Disco Pickle]

I've been saying - we can't really change where the Machine is headed (unless we organize into larger groups).

So if you're not into Fighting The Good Fight (few people are, these days), the best way to prepare for the coming National 1976NYC zone is to build a little island where your friends and family can sustain themselves. And I don't mean a literal island - I mean you have to figure out how to flourish and support each other without any buying power. For us individuals, salvation is not going to come from the top of the pyramid. It's going to come from our communities and neighborhoods.

I see where you're going with this, Cram -- Smart people will begin to build community networks and neighborhood support groups.  The rampant isolation and individualism we see today will have to take a back seat to working together IRL to get by.

I know a guy who's said things like this for as long as I've known him and before, going back to before I was born.  He's even helped build just such a small, self contained support group with plans on exactly where they go and how they survive in just such a situation.

I always thought the idea was a little far fetched but what he's basically described is an Israeli Kibbutz type of small, close knit community.

I'm sure a lot of good could come out of that bolded bit, LMNO.

[Adios]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

We have a lady here, she lives right behind me. She watches kids, dogs, etc all the time to help out. She was turned in for running an illegal daycare and had to jump through hoops just to watch kids irregularly to help others. The bunch at the office are always on her for having so many dogs in her yard.

Sadly, I fear this will always be the case.

[LMNO]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

I assumed Cram was talking more along the lines of John Robb's sustainable communities.

Ah.  Yeah, if that's what he's talking about, he should wear Kevlar. On his head.  


LMNO
-insert clever quip about Ruby Ridge here.

[Cramulus]

yeah I don't mean forming some kind of subnation or legal structure.

I mean like --- I live upstairs from a chinese food place. There are like two or three families of chinese people living in that building. They bought the lot behind their restaurant and started a serious-ass farm there. They've only got like 1/4th of an acre but they use every square inch of it.

When I was living in Yonkers, I was dirt poor and frustrated all the time. I couldn't stop thinking about how grim the future looked, how I was the butt end of some horrible capitalist nightmare. And it bugged me out like nothing else how the poorest people I knew were also the ones most direly hooked on money and capitalism. This one guy I hung out with could barely afford to buy a six pack of beer on payday. Poor as shit and it made him miserable. And all he ever talked about was money and striking it rich. He was 32, a real hard worker, and was actually poorer than he was in college... and it made him disgusted with himself. It was an awful cycle.






What kept me afloat during this time was a network of friends who were also poor but did not give a shit. Us unemployed cats would get together on a Friday afternoon and go for a walk in the woods. We'd have picnics, or just talk about shit. We'd leave surreal notes in chalk for others to find. For me, it was a way of buoying myself in a world that was not focused on money or output. At the time, I felt like there was little I could do to improve my financial situation -- so you've just gotta figure out how to be happy with what you've got.






Communities are the key... we owe it to our neighbors to not live like we're rats hitting a feeder bar. Even if we can't make a difference, we can create at atmosphere where it's possible to make a difference.

[Cain]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

Though, that said, if this is done via Facebook, you can bet someone will be watching it.  The lengths at which private intelligence agecies to go in order to discover sedition and terrorism never cease to amaze me.

[Adios]

Well, I was thinking more practically -- Carpooling, families pooling their money to buy in bulk at Costco, neighborhood crimewatch, block parties, looking after Mrs Jones' kids while she's at her day job, etc.

Though, that said, if this is done via Facebook, you can bet someone will be watching it.  The lengths at which private intelligence agecies to go in order to discover sedition and terrorism never cease to amaze me.

Yeah, those people need to know their place and stay in it. 

Might be a damn good facebook troll, just to waste their time.

[LMNO]

I agree, the survellience state has gotten exceptionally intrusive, much more so than in the 70s.  However, if we're postulating severe lack of funds for public services, that may include local law enforcement, who will most likely be focusing their attention on violence and theft, rather than Sunday potluck dinners with your neighbors.

[Cain]

There's only a severe lack of funds for those not part of the insider jet-set.

Who owns all these private intelligence companies?  Well, let's just recall that HBGary were being bankrolled by the Chamber of Commerce...