Freedom is Free Fuckos.

[LMNO]

So, Snopes sheds some light on this.

- First, it was a military history class.  It's still jingoistic, but it somehow makes a tiny bit more sense, given the context.

- Second, it was a High School.  I don't know why this makes a difference to me, but it feels "better" than if this was done to a bunch of third graders.  By the time you get to High School, kids should be better prepared for this kind of stuff.  I know for sure that if I was in a Military History class, and the teacher asked what "right" I have to a desk, it wouldn't take me too long to figure out what she's on about.

That said, Dok Howl has one sweet looking motorcycle:

I'M ONLY GONNA SPIT THIS ONCE:  FREEDOM DOES NOT COME FROM SOLDIERS.

NORTH KOREA HAS SOLDIERS.  NAZI GERMANY HAD SOLDIERS.  TOJO HAD SOLDIERS.  STALIN HAD SOLDIERS.

FREEDOM COMES FROM THE COMMON MAN WILLING TO PULL A PATRICK HENRY.

THAT IS ALL.  YOU MAY NOW RETURN TO YOUR EMAIL FORWARDS.

[Cain]

I'M ONLY GONNA SPIT THIS ONCE:  FREEDOM DOES NOT COME FROM SOLDIERS.

NORTH KOREA HAS SOLDIERS.  NAZI GERMANY HAD SOLDIERS.  TOJO HAD SOLDIERS.  STALIN HAD SOLDIERS.

FREEDOM COMES FROM THE COMMON MAN WILLING TO PULL A PATRICK HENRY.

THAT IS ALL.  YOU MAY NOW RETURN TO YOUR EMAIL FORWARDS.

Ah, but those weren't True Soldiers.  You can tell, because True Soldiers fight for Freedom.

[Doktor Howl]

FREEDOM IS NOT MY REPONSIBILITY.  WE HAVE SOLDIERS FOR THAT.
\

[Doktor Howl]

Jerry Pournelle is one of my favorite authors.  He is a raging conservative by the standards of the 1970s, but he has a LOT to say about the role of soldiers.  One quote of his that I particularly like - and agree with, given my own military experience - is:

"Soldiers cannot solve your problems.  The most they can do is buy you some time so that YOU can solve those problems.  That is the absolute limit of their capabilities."

[LMNO]

Jerry Pournelle is one of my favorite authors.  He is a raging conservative by the standards of the 1970s,

Which means he's a Marxist by today's standards, yeah?

Also, very accurate assessment.

[Triple Zero]

- Second, it was a High School.  I don't know why this makes a difference to me, but it feels "better" than if this was done to a bunch of third graders.  By the time you get to High School, kids should be better prepared for this kind of stuff.  I know for sure that if I was in a Military History class, and the teacher asked what "right" I have to a desk, it wouldn't take me too long to figure out what she's on about.

When pressed for the answer, I'd still go for Luna's taxes answer.

Even though, American Soldiers did liberate us in WW2, so technically in that case they'd be sorta right, except that they'd be too old to carry desks around. And if the Nazis had won, we'd probably still have desks. We'd probably also have more glorifying of military/soldiers, for that matter.

Can someone explain to me, in a sort of alternative-history kind of fashion, what would have happened if those vets hadn't done their thing and what sequence of events led to your children having the freedom to sit in a classroom or not?

For bonus points, discuss whether these vets might not have done a good enough job at whatever it was they did, because even though your kids have the right to sit in a classroom, apparently you're all still waiting for the other 27 vets to carry a proper education into that classroom as well, right?

It'd have been better if the vets had carried the teacher out, instead of the desks in, no?

[Doktor Howl]

Jerry Pournelle is one of my favorite authors.  He is a raging conservative by the standards of the 1970s,

Which means he's a Marxist by today's standards, yeah?

Also, very accurate assessment.

From what I gather, he thinks we've all gone insane.  He has also stated more than once how glad he is that his vision of the future (75% of the population living in "welfare islands") never materialized, a statement the teabaggers would refute based entirely on their perception of smudgy people.

[Cain]

"Under Nazi rule, the American economy collapses.  People riot in the streets.  Cities are burnt to the ground.  Civilization itself is obliterated.

Only 27 veterans with carpentry tools can save the American education system now."

[Doktor Howl]

"Under Nazi rule, the American economy collapses.  People riot in the streets.  Cities are burnt to the ground.  Civilization itself is obliterated.

Only 27 veterans with carpentry tools can save the American education system now."

Incidentally, Cain, the order in which to read Pournelle's series is:

High Justice (not actually part of the series, but it gives some good background)
Birth of Fire (not actually part of the series, but it gives some good background)
Falkenberg's Legion
Prince of Mercenaries
Go Tell The Spartans
Prince of Sparta
Warworld: Codominium
Warworld I
Warworld II
Warworld III
(I do not recomment the subsequent Warworld stand-alone novels, as they aren't Pournelle's, and kind of wreck things)
King David's Spaceship
The Mote in God's Eye
The Gripping Hand

[Cain]

Ah, thank you very much!  I digged High Justice, so I'm looking forward to the rest of these.

[Doktor Howl]

Ah, thank you very much!  I digged High Justice, so I'm looking forward to the rest of these.

Falkenberg's Legion
Prince of Mercenaries
Go Tell The Spartans
Prince of Sparta

...Can be obtained in a single volume titled "The Prince".

[Salty]

"Under Nazi rule, the American economy collapses.  People riot in the streets.  Cities are burnt to the ground.  Civilization itself is obliterated.

Only 27 veterans with carpentry tools can save the American education system now."

[Doktor Howl]

Cain, you will particulary enjoy Go Tell The Spartans and Prince of Sparta, due to the heavy use of LIC warfare and the discussions about it (you have to bear in mind that the story is from 30 years ago)...But you have to read the story in order to get the context.

[Cain]

Well, the good thing about LIC is the concepts remain pretty much the same, it's just how it interfaces with the technology that give it the particulers.

Or, as we liked to say in the business - "Low Intensity Conflict: It's finger-LICing good."

I have just checked: I have the single book version, "The Prince".  In fact, I seem to have everything on the list up to King David's Spaceship.

[Doktor Howl]

Well, the good thing about LIC is the concepts remain pretty much the same, it's just how it interfaces with the technology that give it the particulers.

Or, as we liked to say in the business - "Low Intensity Conflict: It's finger-LICing good."

I have just checked: I have the single book version, "The Prince".  In fact, I seem to have everything on the list up to King David's Spaceship.

That's the first book that deals with the Second Empire of Man, which rises from the 600 year dark age following the collapse of the first empire (which in itself forms as a reaction to the collapse of the Codominium and the devastation of Earth).  It's probably the best breaking point in the story...IE, if you don't have that and the following books, the story has ended satisfactorily. 

The fun part of the second series is, aliens are finally introduced in The Mote in God's Eye, and they are ALIEN.  Extremely well done.