News:

Testamonial:  "My god, you people are depressing."

Main Menu

Occupy

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, October 02, 2011, 03:37:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I think that the Occupy movement has been a useful part of a larger movement that doesn't have an identity yet. Part of the reason it doesn't have an identity is because people are still allowing themselves to think they are divided along party lines, when in fact at this point the division is largely illusory, a myth propagated by the mass media.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


maphdet

Quote from: Demolition_Squid on February 08, 2012, 03:48:21 PM
peaceful protest is useless.

yup.

And also-the coming generations are going to be fucked just as the former generations.
With or without ANY kind of protests.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Oh wait, I was suppose to stop the pessimism on my previous post.
I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbequed iguana-

maphdet

Quote from: Nigel on February 08, 2012, 04:03:30 PM
I think that the Occupy movement has been a useful part of a larger movement that doesn't have an identity yet. Part of the reason it doesn't have an identity is because people are still allowing themselves to think they are divided along party lines, when in fact at this point the division is largely illusory, a myth propagated by the mass media.

Here's to hoping Nigel.
I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbequed iguana-

Scribbly

Quote from: maphdet on February 08, 2012, 04:07:50 PM
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on February 08, 2012, 03:48:21 PM
peaceful protest is useless.

yup.

And also-the coming generations are going to be fucked just as the former generations.
With or without ANY kind of protests.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Oh wait, I was suppose to stop the pessimism on my previous post.

Yeah, you're right. The past decade has shown without a doubt that all the systems that make up modern society are completely inviolable and stable. Nothing anyone can do can possibly alter this fact and cause change.

Quote from: Nigel on February 08, 2012, 04:03:30 PM
I think that the Occupy movement has been a useful part of a larger movement that doesn't have an identity yet. Part of the reason it doesn't have an identity is because people are still allowing themselves to think they are divided along party lines, when in fact at this point the division is largely illusory, a myth propagated by the mass media.


I agree. I think people are starting to wake up to the two man con on a large scale.
I had an existential crisis and all I got was this stupid gender.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

85% of the U.S. population thinks that corporations have too much influence on government. There is a drive for a constitutional amendment that will define "people" as individual human beings. I think people are starting to be aware that there really aren't two sides doing battle, but one populace being manipulated by corporate interests. I'd like to see that meme grow.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Cramulus

#1055


behind that cape, occupy's totally finger blasting the middle class

Cain

I find it very interesting that, in America, populism is defined almost entirely in terms of the middle class.  This makes the USA an aberration among modern democracies, where usually the working class is the focus of populist rhetoric, whether leftwing or right.

Probably because a) in the US, using the words "working class" marks you out as a Communist, or some kind of fancy social sciences intellectual (aka, a Communist), b) everyone in the US except for those firmly on the bottom rungs of society are conditioned to think of themselves as "middle class", either through self-deception and aspiration, or through a misunderstanding of power and wealth disparities within the US, and c) just because.

It really bugs me when I see people banging on about "tEh mIdDlE class", because it kinda gives me the impression they haven't really thought through any of the above, or that their posturing is a desperate attempt to seperate themselves from the dreaded working class as an act of Will.

Incidentally, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you don't own a means of production, you're working class.  But I'm old fashioned like that.

Cramulus

That's a really interesting point. I rarely hear the phrase "working class" in that modern populist rhetoric. And until a few months ago, populism (in mainstream discussion) was mostly of a rawr government=bad libertarian thing.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: maphdet on February 08, 2012, 03:45:24 PM
Occupy was fucked from the beginning.
It tried to be something of Change for this clusterfuck of politics in the world, but it (imo) is playing in the same game of politics.
This 'movement' will and has opened doors for more transparency within what governments are doing but it also will and has opened doors to control the shit outta people too.
-maph
convinced this shit was started to 'occupy' our time and shit.

/pessimism.

One thing the Obama presidency has done:  It has reminded me that "transparency" can mean "I can see through it", but it can also mean "I can't see it at all".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

Quote from: Cramulus on February 08, 2012, 05:31:46 PM
That's a really interesting point. I rarely hear the phrase "working class" in that modern populist rhetoric. And until a few months ago, populism (in mainstream discussion) was mostly of a rawr government=bad libertarian thing.

It's something that has bugged me for the last two years.  A lot of talk of Dem blogs etc about "restoring the middle class" or "saving the middle class".  I used to ask "so that does that mean you're cutting your losses and considering the working class expendable?  Oh, of course you are, you're Democratic partisans on the internet", but I got banned a lot for that line of mockery.

Cramulus

You're right that few people [around here at least] think of themselves as "working class", even if they're not entirely sure what defines middle class.

A while back, somebody (you?) posted something along the lines that unemployment benefits, medicare, etc, were created to keep the middle class from feeling any solidarity with the working class.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cramulus on February 08, 2012, 05:48:03 PM
You're right that few people [around here at least] think of themselves as "working class", even if they're not entirely sure what defines middle class.

A while back, somebody (you?) posted something along the lines that unemployment benefits, medicare, etc, were created to keep the middle class from feeling any solidarity with the working class.

To me, middle class is an utterly meaningless term.

Either you have to work for a living or you don't.  If you do, you're working class.  If you don't, you're Mitt Romney.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

Middle class is essentially a social term, though to be able to achieve some of the social standards and expectations, a certain level of economic achievement is necessary precondition.

Cram, I don't know if I posted that, but it's certainly the way it seems to be used, yes.  It has also been used as either part of a gradualist strategy towards a socialist democracy (Fabians) or, more normally, as an attempt to buy off the working classes from Communism (Kennedy etc).

Since there is no communism to worry about anymore, there is no need to buy off the working class.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Cain on February 08, 2012, 06:00:48 PM
Middle class is essentially a social term, though to be able to achieve some of the social standards and expectations, a certain level of economic achievement is necessary precondition.

No argument there.  I'm just saying that right NOW, you are either one or the other, working class or Mitt Romney.  There is no functioning middle.  You are a predator, or you are prey.

And if there was ever an indictment of America, that's it.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

Oh yeah, no disagreement.  As you'll see, I said pretty much the same thing above.