The Benjamin Franklin Effect.

[Cain]

Apparently, it is only really for use on super good looking people who are constantly being sucked up to by potential partners.

It's more of a reverse-signalling thing - I have such a high opinion of myself, I don't care if I blow this date by insulting you.  And I'm used to partners as attractive as you, you're actually nothing special.  As such, I am, in fact, someone special.

If the guys you are dating are insecure, that probably explains the response.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Apparently, it is only really for use on super good looking people who are constantly being sucked up to by potential partners.

It's more of a reverse-signalling thing - I have such a high opinion of myself, I don't care if I blow this date by insulting you.  And I'm used to partners as attractive as you, you're actually nothing special.  As such, I am, in fact, someone special.

If the guys you are dating are insecure, that probably explains the response.

Was joking. I  know how it's supposed to work; they say something that questions my value, and I'm supposed to become invested in "proving" myself.

I've had a few guys I've been talking to at bars or parties try that shit, it's usually at that exact moment that I become very interested in walking away. That, or I just start making fun of them until they leave.

[Cain]

Ah.  In my defence, I have had an entire bottle of wine not too long ago....I did wonder, but then I decided "what the fuck".

The most interesting thing about the Pick Up Artist crowd is how they convinced they are in possession of major secrets of human nature and no-one knows what they are up to (because they are master social manipulators).  Yet, somehow, almost everyone can tell when one of these douchebags is trying to run a technique.

It'd be tragic, if not for the comedy that usually ensues.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ah.  In my defence, I have had an entire bottle of wine not too long ago....I did wonder, but then I decided "what the fuck".

The most interesting thing about the Pick Up Artist crowd is how they convinced they are in possession of major secrets of human nature and no-one knows what they are up to (because they are master social manipulators).  Yet, somehow, almost everyone can tell when one of these douchebags is trying to run a technique.

It'd be tragic, if not for the comedy that usually ensues.

I know, I find them pitiful but hilarious! What awful, sad little creatures.

[PopeTom]

I had noticed that effect a while ago. A lot of people who everyone seems to like start by outright criticizing and being rude to people that want to like them. Then the people who the person is being rude to try to make him like them. Well maybe they don't do it consciously, but I've definitely seen a lot of people doing it. I've found plenty of uses to that and when you take things like that into account it's easier not to get manipulated and to see through such people.

Isn't this the pick up artist's purpose behind 'negging'?

Yes, exactly.

Maybe I need to read some pick-up artisan books. I don't know how to play the game right I don't think. They "neg" you, and then you're supposed to "neg" them back, right? It's not working for me. No matter how interested I am in a guy, once this process starts they always end up turning all purple in the face and leaving.

I think the way it works is they neg you and then your desperate womanly need to to be accepted and fawned over makes you sleep with them to win them over to liking you.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I had noticed that effect a while ago. A lot of people who everyone seems to like start by outright criticizing and being rude to people that want to like them. Then the people who the person is being rude to try to make him like them. Well maybe they don't do it consciously, but I've definitely seen a lot of people doing it. I've found plenty of uses to that and when you take things like that into account it's easier not to get manipulated and to see through such people.

Isn't this the pick up artist's purpose behind 'negging'?

Yes, exactly.

Maybe I need to read some pick-up artisan books. I don't know how to play the game right I don't think. They "neg" you, and then you're supposed to "neg" them back, right? It's not working for me. No matter how interested I am in a guy, once this process starts they always end up turning all purple in the face and leaving.

I think the way it works is they neg you and then your desperate womanly need to to be accepted and fawned over makes you sleep with them to win them over to liking you.

[Freeky]

Apparently, it is only really for use on super good looking people who are constantly being sucked up to by potential partners.

It's more of a reverse-signalling thing - I have such a high opinion of myself, I don't care if I blow this date by insulting you.  And I'm used to partners as attractive as you, you're actually nothing special.  As such, I am, in fact, someone special.

If the guys you are dating are insecure, that probably explains the response.

This made me

[Cramulus]

This also can tie into the "poor but happy" threads we've been discussing.  Maybe a person adjusts their inner narrative to justify a crappy paycheck?

It seems that way. But what was really interesting is that people who work for nearly nothing or volunteer end up constructing an inner narrative about the worth of their work rather than using exterior goals. In other words, they value the payless job over the paying job more over time. I've /felt/ this happen in my own life, and what's really difficult for me to wrap my head around is that I feel like it's totally okay and right and decent that I should. But something in me conflicts with that. It's like the many weeks I spent working at museums pro bono publico; I feel like I value that more than my paying assistantship. But the work really wasn't any different. I was doing the same things. It's not as if I'm not benefiting in some way from the volunteer work, I'm gaining experience, contacts and skills which will ultimately benefit me and immediately go in my CV, but that still doesn't seem to be a good reason for valuing it over the paid work I've done.

My only conclusion is that I've rationalized the pro bono work as an internal reward and therefore, as is generally true for humans, value it more than the same work with monetary external rewards.

The literature on happiness is in accordance with this. People are much more likely to be happy if they orient onto intrinsic goals (meaningful relationships, personal growth, enjoyment of the task itself) as opposed to extrinsic goals (wealth, fame, personal image).

[Dalek]

Ah.  In my defence, I have had an entire bottle of wine not too long ago....I did wonder, but then I decided "what the fuck".

The most interesting thing about the Pick Up Artist crowd is how they convinced they are in possession of major secrets of human nature and no-one knows what they are up to (because they are master social manipulators).  Yet, somehow, almost everyone can tell when one of these douchebags is trying to run a technique.

It'd be tragic, if not for the comedy that usually ensues.

A friend of mine perceives himself as a pick up artist. He thinks he's got human psychology figured out and is a master of puppets.

That shit just never works, except for making you embarrassed of being with someone who's doing that (You know that kind of awkward when you're feeling embarrassed over somebody else failing too hard). You see whenever he tries to apply his tactics it always turns into a terrible, terrible disaster. He still thinks he's the master guru of female psychology.

[The Rev]

Thank you Kai, excellent read.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ah.  In my defence, I have had an entire bottle of wine not too long ago....I did wonder, but then I decided "what the fuck".

The most interesting thing about the Pick Up Artist crowd is how they convinced they are in possession of major secrets of human nature and no-one knows what they are up to (because they are master social manipulators).  Yet, somehow, almost everyone can tell when one of these douchebags is trying to run a technique.

It'd be tragic, if not for the comedy that usually ensues.

A friend of mine perceives himself as a pick up artist. He thinks he's got human psychology figured out and is a master of puppets.

That shit just never works, except for making you embarrassed of being with someone who's doing that (You know that kind of awkward when you're feeling embarrassed over somebody else failing too hard). You see whenever he tries to apply his tactics it always turns into a terrible, terrible disaster. He still thinks he's the master guru of female psychology.

Dunning-Kruger.