I'll just leave this here....

[Triple Zero]

Addition: I forgot to ask, are these numbers higher or lower than Maine, or the US, ?

[AFK]

In Maine we have Drug Courts, we have diversion programs, we have an educational program called SIRP that kids might be eligible for.  The judges here will look for anyway to keep a kid out of jail.  Obviously, if they commit a violent crime, or there is another associated crime those chances go way down.  But if it is simple possession, unless they tell the judge to fuck off, they won't be going to jail.

So, that thread I bumped in Apple Talk.  That was from a time I facilitated these little discussion groups with some high school kids down in Southern Maine.  I came in with some questions and asked them to share their thoughts and experiences.  The day we talked about marijuana I had a girl flat out tell me that she smokes marijuana and her mom can't do anything about it because she smokes marijuana too.  And if mom says anything, she'd be a flat out hypocrite.

Did you explain her it's really not a fair comparison, because if her mom got caught she'd be in really big trouble and would go to jail, while the girl would just get a diversion?

That is the message that system is sending currently. The exact opposite of the stated goal. It's completely messed up.

Kids aren't stupid. How in the hell are you going to convince them not to smoke pot at a young age if there's literally less consequences for doing so than there is in adulthood?

Well that particular program wasn't really an educational program.  I wasn't there to teach them, I was there as a neutral adult (as in not one of their teachers or principals) to facilitate a discussion amongst teens about youth substance abuse.  I did tell her that I understand where she is coming from, and that seeing adults use and then tell kids not to use definitely sends a very mixed signal.  We really didn't get into discussing the legal ramifications as the discussions focused largely around health issues. 

Now, all that said, the same diversion systems that are in place for youth should definitely be in place for adults.  I completely agree with that and would advocate for that.  And indeed we do have adult drug courts here in Maine where that can happen.  I'm pretty sure there is an adult version of the SIRP program too, though I could be wrong about that.  Undoubtedly kids will tend to get more leniency than adults because that's just the nature of things.  But again, I completely agree with you that the system should be more equitable. 

Because of the web filter I can't see what you posted so I will address that at a later point, sorry. 

[AFK]

Addition: I forgot to ask, are these numbers higher or lower than Maine, or the US, ?

I can't see that graph, but I can tell you that in Maine according to 2009 data Lifetime use was at 38.2% and Past 30 day use was 23.7%.  That's high school students.  I recently saw a report come across my e-mail that National data is suggesting the rates are starting to go back up.  These rates had been falling fairly consistently over the past decade.  Our state data for 2011 should be coming out this month so I will be eager to see which way it moved, especially given the new medical marijuana laws in Maine. 

[Triple Zero]

But you are right.  It is creating some interesting scenarios.  The forum I was at last week featured a panel of speakers addressing that very issue.  A good question came up from a school person who asked how to deal with a student who had certification to use medical marijuana.  (Yes, in Maine there is no age restrictions for medical marijuana)  The school person asked the lawyer on the panel how they should handle that and if they could allow the medical marijuana in their school.  The lawyer suggested that they would be on solid ground denying it because the schools receive federal funding.

Whaaaaaaat? That's completely insane?

But these certificates are written by a medical doctor, right? So how come he didn't take into account the scientifically proven fact that pot usage in adolescents causes brain damage?



You can see my pretty graph? Can't have that now, can we! Try this link instead:
http://devio.us/~tripzilch/cannabis.png

(unless your webfilter blocks links with "cannabis" in the URL, but that would probably be a bit counterproductive in your line of work )

[BabylonHoruv]

Addition: I forgot to ask, are these numbers higher or lower than Maine, or the US, ?

I can't see that graph, but I can tell you that in Maine according to 2009 data Lifetime use was at 38.2% and Past 30 day use was 23.7%.  That's high school students.  I recently saw a report come across my e-mail that National data is suggesting the rates are starting to go back up.  These rates had been falling fairly consistently over the past decade.  Our state data for 2011 should be coming out this month so I will be eager to see which way it moved, especially given the new medical marijuana laws in Maine. 

The highest past 30 days rate on Trips chart, 17 year olds, is under 20%

That could be cultural, but it also looks like the Netherlands approach might be working.

[AFK]

But you are right.  It is creating some interesting scenarios.  The forum I was at last week featured a panel of speakers addressing that very issue.  A good question came up from a school person who asked how to deal with a student who had certification to use medical marijuana.  (Yes, in Maine there is no age restrictions for medical marijuana)  The school person asked the lawyer on the panel how they should handle that and if they could allow the medical marijuana in their school.  The lawyer suggested that they would be on solid ground denying it because the schools receive federal funding.

Whaaaaaaat? That's completely insane?

But these certificates are written by a medical doctor, right? So how come he didn't take into account the scientifically proven fact that pot usage in adolescents causes brain damage?

I dunno.  And I was a little confused by that whole exchange because the guy who manages the Medical Marijuana program said that in the entire history of the program zero adolescents had been registered.  Although the registry is now gone.  Though, the more I think about it I may have misheard and it was actually a member of school staff the school person was talking about.  People were pretty animated during the Q&A session and people were talking over one another. 

You can see my pretty graph? Can't have that now, can we! Try this link instead:
http://devio.us/~tripzilch/cannabis.png

(unless your webfilter blocks links with "cannabis" in the URL, but that would probably be a bit counterproductive in your line of work )

Yeah, sorry, no dice.  Most of the time I have no problem accessing sites.  Though, there are a lot of sites involving gambling and gambling addiction that I can't access which is completely annoying given the new casino that is about to open up just down the road.  But I'll be able to see it on my home comp so I'll get back to you on that. 

[East Coast Hustle]

I imagine that, all snark and vitriol aside, the casino issue is one in which you and I find ourselves in complete agreement.

I'd like to find the people responsible for it and give them all the bastinado.

[Triple Zero]

Not really.  I mean, there is Marinol.  Look, the reality is that smoked marijuana is a very crude delivery system for the chemicals that actually have any medical benefit.  And it requires inhaling hot tar laden smoke.  I'd rather see us develop and approve a more efficient delivery system with less negative health impacts on the patient.  

How about if we'd say they put the poisonous tar in there to prevent abuse?

That would work, right?

The highest past 30 days rate on Trips chart, 17 year olds, is under 20%

That could be cultural, but it also looks like the Netherlands approach might be working.

I'm guessing it's a littlebit of both, also because the policy has been roughly like that for a very long time, so it's probably influenced the cultural aspect.



And, because I'm a STUBBORN one, I'm not giving up, there should be some place on the internet that you can see images on right? Try this one!!
http://ritz.home.fmf.nl/puppies.png (see I named it puppies, what horrible nasty webfilter would block puppies??)

[Triple Zero]

Sorry, Nigel, since the history of corruption and incompetence by the DEA is, apparently, not valid then I wouldn't expect any other history to be accepted as valid either.

You just can't compare things that happened in the past to things that are happening in the present. It's apples and oranges!

But SCIENCE can compare apples and oranges just fine: Apples & Oranges: A comparison

So there's that sorted out, too.

[Freeky]

Celexa (time-released methamphetamine)

Wait, what?    Are you sure about that?  

[AFK]

And, because I'm a STUBBORN one, I'm not giving up, there should be some place on the internet that you can see images on right? Try this one!!
http://ritz.home.fmf.nl/puppies.png (see I named it puppies, what horrible nasty webfilter would block puppies??)

Success!  Okay, so I'm going to use 2004 as a comparison because we do our surveys on even years.  (Or used to, after they revamped the survey they started doing it on odd years, anyway....)

So in 2004 amongst our 12th graders, equivalent to your 17&18 group, past 30 day use was at 26.8% in Maine.  The National numbers are likely statistically very close to that.  Lifetime use was 50.6%.  So it's definitely a notch higher than the rates in your country. 

I will note that the pattern across ages looks to be pretty much the same.  So I can roughly say that culture doesn't seem to be an impact in terms of substance abuse and development.  As to why your rates are lower?  That's a good question.  I wouldn't pretend to know why. 

[Freckleback]

Celexa (time-released methamphetamine)

Wait, what?    Are you sure about that?  

celexa is nothing like methamphetamine.

Well... the effects anyway i have no knowledge of the science.

[AFK]

I imagine that, all snark and vitriol aside, the casino issue is one in which you and I find ourselves in complete agreement.

I'd like to find the people responsible for it and give them all the bastinado.

Heh, NOPE.  I voted FOR the casino. 

[Freeky]

Celexa (time-released methamphetamine)

Wait, what?    Are you sure about that?  

celexa is nothing like methamphetamine.

Well... the effects anyway i have no knowledge of the science.

I was on it for a while, and it did nothing like what meth is supposed to do.  Also, the wiki articles (yeah, yeah...) don't classify them the same, and the PubMed webpage for Citalopram lists it as an SSRI prescribed for depression and other things, where methamphetamines are prescribed for ADHD and obesity related thing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

But you are right.  It is creating some interesting scenarios.  The forum I was at last week featured a panel of speakers addressing that very issue.  A good question came up from a school person who asked how to deal with a student who had certification to use medical marijuana.  (Yes, in Maine there is no age restrictions for medical marijuana)  The school person asked the lawyer on the panel how they should handle that and if they could allow the medical marijuana in their school.  The lawyer suggested that they would be on solid ground denying it because the schools receive federal funding.

Whaaaaaaat? That's completely insane?

But these certificates are written by a medical doctor, right? So how come he didn't take into account the scientifically proven fact that pot usage in adolescents causes brain damage?



You can see my pretty graph? Can't have that now, can we! Try this link instead:
http://devio.us/~tripzilch/cannabis.png

(unless your webfilter blocks links with "cannabis" in the URL, but that would probably be a bit counterproductive in your line of work )

Well, according to this article: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090202175105.htm

It's associated with heavy use, 6+ joints smoked daily from 13 to 19. If a child had a condition that was serious (or specific; it seems that severe autism has been treated with marijuana, with some success) enough for a doctor and the child's parents to OK treatment with marijuana, it would probably either be cancer, in which case it's unlikely that treatment would last that long, or something like autism, which is treated with very small ingested doses.

It seems kind of shitty that the schools would be looking for ways to keep a child with a serious condition from being able to be medicated at school. I don't see why they wouldn't be looking for ways to treat it like any other medication, and have the parents give it to the school nurse for dispensing at predetermined intervals.