I'll just leave this here....

[AFK]

However, it seems to me that the only argument RWHN makes is 'If adults do it, so will the kids." Seems to ignore that plenty of kids are already doing it and sidesteps the question of individual rights, as well as the questions surrounding medical marijuana (ie, If someone is dying painfully and smoking pot makes them feel better, should it be illegal?)

It doesn't ignore that.  Indeed it acknowledges that adolescent use is unacceptably high.  However, it also acknowledges that use is linked to access and social access is very influential.  

About half of the kids who abuse prescription drugs get the drugs from someone they know, often times in their own home.  (NSDUH, 2006)  If you don't think that would happen with legal marijuana you are smoking something that probably should be illegal.  

By that reasoning prescription opiates and benzodiazepines should also be illegal.

They are outside of using them for medical purposes. 

But it certainly is a serious problem. 

So is the fact that you make children drink alcohol.

Uhh, say what?  Try that one again.  

[Kai]

He's agreed that the position is arbitrary, therefore conceeding the flaws in his argument. Now I'm just interested in why he follows the illogic of an arbitrary double standard. Emotional impulse? Job requirement? I'm not saying those are good reasons (well, maybe the second is; jobs are hard to find right now), but they would explain the position in the same way that herd mentality, tabooed sexuality, tradition, and misogyny explain the fundamentalists position against abortion and birth control.

[Freckleback]

... 30 pages?

I'm not sure.

One thing I know about threads like these is that they're super-funny when you're high.

And I'm not feelin' it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What I've taken away from this thread is that it's okay for kids to drink alcohol, but not to do weed.  Because one's illegal for adults, and one isn't.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

However, it seems to me that the only argument RWHN makes is 'If adults do it, so will the kids." Seems to ignore that plenty of kids are already doing it and sidesteps the question of individual rights, as well as the questions surrounding medical marijuana (ie, If someone is dying painfully and smoking pot makes them feel better, should it be illegal?)

It doesn't ignore that.  Indeed it acknowledges that adolescent use is unacceptably high.  However, it also acknowledges that use is linked to access and social access is very influential.  

About half of the kids who abuse prescription drugs get the drugs from someone they know, often times in their own home.  (NSDUH, 2006)  If you don't think that would happen with legal marijuana you are smoking something that probably should be illegal.  

By that reasoning prescription opiates and benzodiazepines should also be illegal.

They are outside of using them for medical purposes. 

But it certainly is a serious problem. 

So is the fact that you make children drink alcohol.

Uhh, say what?  Try that one again.  

If smoking the occasional joint causes kids to also smoke the occasional joint, then it goes to follow that your occasional beer habit causes children to drink beer.

This is the consequence of your position.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

However, it seems to me that the only argument RWHN makes is 'If adults do it, so will the kids." Seems to ignore that plenty of kids are already doing it and sidesteps the question of individual rights, as well as the questions surrounding medical marijuana (ie, If someone is dying painfully and smoking pot makes them feel better, should it be illegal?)

It doesn't ignore that.  Indeed it acknowledges that adolescent use is unacceptably high.  However, it also acknowledges that use is linked to access and social access is very influential.  

About half of the kids who abuse prescription drugs get the drugs from someone they know, often times in their own home.  (NSDUH, 2006)  If you don't think that would happen with legal marijuana you are smoking something that probably should be illegal.  

By that reasoning prescription opiates and benzodiazepines should also be illegal.

They are outside of using them for medical purposes. 

But it certainly is a serious problem. 

So is the fact that you make children drink alcohol.

Uhh, say what?  Try that one again.  

You drink.  By your own model, that means you make it more likely that kids will drink.

Stop making kids drink, RWHN.

[East Coast Hustle]

Further, I don't think anyone is arguing that adolescents should abuse substances.

RWHN's argument seems to be that if adults use drugs, more kids will use drugs.

In short, your rights should be curtailed because somebody might not be watching their snot-nosed kids.

Or because your neighbor accidentally backs over your kid while impaired.  

a) He's probably going to want to stay in his house and watch TV

Or maybe he'll be like one of the 200 or so Maine drivers who were pulled over in the past couple of years and found to be driving under the influence of marijuana.  (It's from a PowerPoint I have in my hand here.  Or maybe I just pulled it out of my arse.  YOU DECIDE!!!)

b) What are your kids doing in someone else's driveway?

Basking in the Grand Glory of American Freedom!!!  

200 out of 1.3 million.

That's an occurance level of 1 hundredth of one percent.  Admittedly I am using population rather than registered drivers, but even if half those people don't drive, an incredibly generous margin of error, that means one fiftieth of one percent.

And that is in a couple years.  I suspect the incidence rate of running into moose is higher than that.

We should probably make it illegal to be a moose.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What I've taken away from this thread is that it's okay for kids to drink alcohol, but not to do weed.  Because one's illegal for adults, and one isn't.

Yes, and also keep in mind that one should stay legal because it's legal and one should stay illegal because it's illegal, and the two cannot be compared because they are apples to oranges.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What I've taken away from this thread is that it's okay for kids to drink alcohol, but not to do weed.  Because one's illegal for adults, and one isn't.

Yes, and also keep in mind that one should stay legal because it's legal and one should stay illegal because it's illegal, and the two cannot be compared because they are apples to oranges.

As opposed to pesticide use, which is the exact same thing as smoking pot.

[AFK]

And where, exactly, should that line be drawn?

Logically, if you think that pot should be illegal for adults to use then you MUST think that alcohol should be illegal as well given that it incurs a far higher cost to society as well as to the individual.

But you keep saying it's a false comparison (it's not, especially in this theoretical context)

BUT COMPARING POT TO DDT IS JUST FINE.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

When looking at the structures of policy making in the name of public safety and addressing public health issues, yes, yes it is.  

But booze and pot are different. 

Unnnggg.  You don't get it.  The point of my comparison was to point out that government has a role in the realm of public safety and public health.  I'm not literally comparing the qualities of the two substances.  

My issue with the alcohol and pot pairing as pertains to deciding legal status is that, marijuana, on its own merits poses significant risks to public health.  and on that basis, on its own, can warrant its current status as an illegal substance.  

Is alcohol also very dangerous?  Yes, of course it is.  

And I've said this in past discussion, I will gladly admit and put forward that it is completely and utterly arbitrary that alcohol is legal and marijuana is not.  Guess what, that's how public policy works sometimes.  Lines get drawn.  On one level they make sense to some, on another, they don't make sense to others.  So, you guys get together, write your Congrescritters, and get Marijuana off the schedule.

Me, I like it on the schedule.  Adolescent marijuana abuse is pretty bad but I believe it would be worse if the substance was legal.  It's already starting to creep up higher after declines and I personally blame medical marijuana for part of that increase because it has resulted in a decreased perception of harm amongst adolescents.  Because doctors are saying it is okay, it must be okay.  That's why kids abuse rx drugs.  Because they are kids and they don't think and use logic like (many) adults do.  

so yes, it is completely arbitrary.  

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

ETA:  JEZUZ 7 NEW REPLIES DON'T YOU GUYS HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM OR SOMETHING???

Thats why God invented wireless... PISS AND POST AT THE SAME TIME, BITCHES!!

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

My issue with the alcohol and pot pairing as pertains to deciding legal status is that, marijuana, on its own merits poses significant risks to public health.  and on that basis, on its own, can warrant its current status as an illegal substance.  

What are those significant risks to public health?

[AFK]

You drink.  By your own model, that means you make it more likely that kids will drink.

Stop making kids drink, RWHN.

Oh, okay I understand now.  Technically, you are correct.  Though, my son hasn't quite figured out the bottle opener so I figure I'm good for a couple of years anyway. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

And where, exactly, should that line be drawn?

Logically, if you think that pot should be illegal for adults to use then you MUST think that alcohol should be illegal as well given that it incurs a far higher cost to society as well as to the individual.

But you keep saying it's a false comparison (it's not, especially in this theoretical context)

BUT COMPARING POT TO DDT IS JUST FINE.

UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

When looking at the structures of policy making in the name of public safety and addressing public health issues, yes, yes it is.  

But booze and pot are different. 

Unnnggg.  You don't get it.  The point of my comparison was to point out that government has a role in the realm of public safety and public health.  I'm not literally comparing the qualities of the two substances.  

My issue with the alcohol and pot pairing as pertains to deciding legal status is that, marijuana, on its own merits poses significant risks to public health.  and on that basis, on its own, can warrant its current status as an illegal substance.  

Is alcohol also very dangerous?  Yes, of course it is.  

And I've said this in past discussion, I will gladly admit and put forward that it is completely and utterly arbitrary that alcohol is legal and marijuana is not.  Guess what, that's how public policy works sometimes.  Lines get drawn.  On one level they make sense to some, on another, they don't make sense to others.  So, you guys get together, write your Congrescritters, and get Marijuana off the schedule.

Me, I like it on the schedule.  Adolescent marijuana abuse is pretty bad but I believe it would be worse if the substance was legal.  It's already starting to creep up higher after declines and I personally blame medical marijuana for part of that increase because it has resulted in a decreased perception of harm amongst adolescents.  Because doctors are saying it is okay, it must be okay.  That's why kids abuse rx drugs.  Because they are kids and they don't think and use logic like (many) adults do.  

so yes, it is completely arbitrary.  

No.

Look, I used to pop pills in high school. I knew it was bad for me. I did it because I wanted to and it was fun. I didn't do it because the doctor said it was ok for me to do prescriptions that weren't prescribed for me. And I eventually stopped.

Kids may be stupid, but they're not misinformed or mislead in their choices. Kids can use logic.

Kids know they're not supposed to drink booze. They know the reasons why. Kids know they're not supposed to smoke up. They know the reasons why. Now if THC is a substance that's less addictive and has fewer health consequences than alcohol, and, I might point out, has the paranoid factor that helps prevent you from doing stupid shit unlike alcohol which makes you think that it's the best idea in the world to go and do something stupid rightfuckingnow, then why are you ok with it remaining illegal and keeping booze legal.

Now that is not logical.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

You drink.  By your own model, that means you make it more likely that kids will drink.

Stop making kids drink, RWHN.

Oh, okay I understand now.  Technically, you are correct.  Though, my son hasn't quite figured out the bottle opener so I figure I'm good for a couple of years anyway. 

Or, you know, you could teach him yourself that he's not allowed to open it until he's 21.