The Tea Party LOVES America...

[Doktor Howl]

That shit just unreels in my head at random.

I blame my misspent youth.

[Doktor Howl]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Oh, Algers.

I don't have any problem with rags-to-riches fantasy stories, but the problem comes in when you posit not only that virtue and diligence will help you prosper, but also that therefore all prosperity comes from virtue and diligence. The obvious logical extension of that line of thinking is that A: The rich are inherently virtuous and diligent, and B: The poor are inherently amoral and lazy.

[Doktor Howl]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Oh, Algers.

I don't have any problem with rags-to-riches fantasy stories, but the problem comes in when you posit not only that virtue and diligence will help you prosper, but also that therefore all prosperity comes from virtue and diligence. The obvious logical extension of that line of thinking is that A: The rich are inherently virtuous and diligent, and B: The poor are inherently amoral and lazy.

And THAT, of course, is the central message behind all of Alger's "novels".  The poor are poor because they are bad people.  The rich are rich because they are virtuous.

And THAT, kiddies, is how we get Calvinists and Libertarians.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Nope, not new at all.

Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

Pr 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Pr 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure.

That's from the real Bible, too, not the Conservapedia one.

[Bruno]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Nope, not new at all.

Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

Pr 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Pr 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure.

That's from the real Bible, too, not the Conservapedia one.

Some of that may be the riches and treasure to be found in the invisible sky mansions awaiting the righteous after death.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Nope, not new at all.

Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

Pr 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Pr 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure.

That's from the real Bible, too, not the Conservapedia one.

Some of that may be the riches and treasure to be found in the invisible sky mansions awaiting the righteous after death.

Yeah, the Bible is really big on promising that if you're poor and humble in life, you'll get rewarded in the afterlife. Jesus was especially fond of using wealth and prosperity metaphors when referring to spirituality and virtuosity.

[Bruno]

You know what, if you're too tired to teach your children how to do things better than you did?

FUCK YOU

Your family and your children will get everything that's coming to them.

Your grandparents and THEIR grandparents did without your fucking TV and your car and your spoiled little shit's video games.

UGH.  

I do not fit in here.

You almost make it sound like you think taxing the rich to help the poor is unethical or immoral when it's really just FREE MARKET CAPITALISM.

This will all become quite clear once you realize that CITIZENSHIP IS A PRODUCT.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

It's not like this shit is new, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragged_Dick

Seriously?  I ask you.

Nope, not new at all.

Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.

Pr 13:22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

Pr 15:6 In the house of the righteous is much treasure.

That's from the real Bible, too, not the Conservapedia one.

Some of that may be the riches and treasure to be found in the invisible sky mansions awaiting the righteous after death.

I don't think so.  Those quotes are from the old testament, and there really isn't any talk about afterlife in the Bible until Jesus came along.

ETA, The Pr 15:6 could easily be talking about more than just monetary treasure, though, but the Ps 37:25 seems to me to clearly be saying that only wicked people are poor.

[Jenne]

"Verily I say unto you, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven"?

I want to blame latent judeo-christian bullshit on the libertarian point of view, but I think it comes more down to the fact that we do a pisspoor job of teaching others simple civics and the type of detailed summary of facts as they stand as RWHN laid out this morning...the movement of society geopolitically was a really interesting course I took in university that really hit home some truths about us hairless apes and our behaviors.

I know of quite a few of my acquaintances who believe as DP does...that the poor are at fault for their own poverty.  That shit just CAN'T happen to those who plan!  No way, no how.  There's a contingency for every disaster, and if you're caught with your pants down, shame on you.  They're your pants and your dick, after all.  If it's hanging in the breeze, you obviously put it there to begin with.

The only time they usually DO learn is when it happens to them...thing is, some of them DID come to this after SURVIVING ordeals as kids...and rather than learn the lesson that you can't always prepare for every contingency, they rather learned the opposite.  That luck has nothing to do with it, rich people really ARE ok and should hold on to every penny of that wealth, and the government is only out to rape you, so shouldn't be trusted to help you.  No matter what.

I can't shout in the wind without getting hoarse, so really, I just figure, they'll find out soon enough.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

"Verily I say unto you, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven"?

I want to blame latent judeo-christian bullshit on the libertarian point of view, but I think it comes more down to the fact that we do a pisspoor job of teaching others simple civics and the type of detailed summary of facts as they stand as RWHN laid out this morning...the movement of society geopolitically was a really interesting course I took in university that really hit home some truths about us hairless apes and our behaviors.

I know of quite a few of my acquaintances who believe as DP does...that the poor are at fault for their own poverty.  That shit just CAN'T happen to those who plan!  No way, no how.  There's a contingency for every disaster, and if you're caught with your pants down, shame on you.  They're your pants and your dick, after all.  If it's hanging in the breeze, you obviously put it there to begin with.

The only time they usually DO learn is when it happens to them...thing is, some of them DID come to this after SURVIVING ordeals as kids...and rather than learn the lesson that you can't always prepare for every contingency, they rather learned the opposite.  That luck has nothing to do with it, rich people really ARE ok and should hold on to every penny of that wealth, and the government is only out to rape you, so shouldn't be trusted to help you.  No matter what.

I can't shout in the wind without getting hoarse, so really, I just figure, they'll find out soon enough.

Like I said, it's a fear-based belief. If you believe that bad things only happen to bad people, you can allay the fear of bad things happening to you. This fear is particularly potent in people who come from a background of deprivation or abuse, and made their way out of it, which is why you see so many "self-made men" who absolutely cling to the belief that their success was purely due to merit. "Nothing bad can happen to me, because I'm good! Right? Right?"

It's rooted in the same superstitious mindset as the one that proclaims that God makes natural disasters happen to punish those who are not devout enough, or that children born into famines did bad things in a former life. It's actually the opposite of rational, but dressed in the trappings of reason.

[Jenne]

"Verily I say unto you, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven"?

I want to blame latent judeo-christian bullshit on the libertarian point of view, but I think it comes more down to the fact that we do a pisspoor job of teaching others simple civics and the type of detailed summary of facts as they stand as RWHN laid out this morning...the movement of society geopolitically was a really interesting course I took in university that really hit home some truths about us hairless apes and our behaviors.

I know of quite a few of my acquaintances who believe as DP does...that the poor are at fault for their own poverty.  That shit just CAN'T happen to those who plan!  No way, no how.  There's a contingency for every disaster, and if you're caught with your pants down, shame on you.  They're your pants and your dick, after all.  If it's hanging in the breeze, you obviously put it there to begin with.

The only time they usually DO learn is when it happens to them...thing is, some of them DID come to this after SURVIVING ordeals as kids...and rather than learn the lesson that you can't always prepare for every contingency, they rather learned the opposite.  That luck has nothing to do with it, rich people really ARE ok and should hold on to every penny of that wealth, and the government is only out to rape you, so shouldn't be trusted to help you.  No matter what.

I can't shout in the wind without getting hoarse, so really, I just figure, they'll find out soon enough.

Like I said, it's a fear-based belief. If you believe that bad things only happen to bad people, you can allay the fear of bad things happening to you. This fear is particularly potent in people who come from a background of deprivation or abuse, and made their way out of it, which is why you see so many "self-made men" who absolutely cling to the belief that their success was purely due to merit. "Nothing bad can happen to me, because I'm good! Right? Right?"

It's rooted in the same superstitious mindset as the one that proclaims that God makes natural disasters happen to punish those who are not devout enough, or that children born into famines did bad things in a former life. It's actually the opposite of rational, but dressed in the trappings of reason.

I WORK HARD.  SO THIS WON'T HAPPEN TO ME.

Yeah.

[Cain]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

The just-world hypothesis (also called the just-world theory, just-world fallacy, just-world effect, or just-world phenomenon) refers to the tendency for people to want to believe that the world is fundamentally just. As a result, when they witness an otherwise inexplicable injustice they rationalize it by searching for things that the victim might have done to deserve it. This deflects their anxiety, and lets them continue to believe the world is a just place, but often at the expense of blaming victims for things that were not, objectively, their fault.

Another theory entails the need to protect one's own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape, for example, only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault. This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviors of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable.

[Jenne]

Well, libertarianism has a bit of utopia built into it for a reason--it removes that element of "shit randomly happening to folks outside their own volition" and all that rot, doesn't it?

[Aucoq]

You know, I've been a bit put off by Doktor Phox's and Trip's responses to you, as I felt they were being harsh for no reason.  I seems that I owe them an apology, because I was wrong and they were right.  You're a bad person, a sort of Dick Cheney writ small, and maybe it's time you found people that you fit in with.

Go, and be damned.

It's okay, we was just dismissin' the Disco Cabbage before it got mainstream and everybody started doin' it, you know?


(besides, it's been the other way around often enough, hasn't it? so much, that I generally assume you turn out to be right about someone even if I don't see it yet)

It's not just the insane callousness he aims at anyone less fortunate than himself...It's also the fact that he insists on believing in things that just aren't so...That a political belief system that contradicts human nature can be implimented anyway, as long as people are "pure" enough.  In this, he's no different than the most shrill university communist.

It's also a peculiar kind of arrogance that insists that everyone else who has different experience and observations just isn't as smart as he is.  

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about, Nigel.  Here you are, dogging on his religion, when you just KNOW that with hard work and sacrifice, you'd be rich...Because, you know, what you do isn't work.  Neither is what a mechanic does, or a plumber, or some schmuck gluing widgets together at minimum wage.

Spare a little sympathy for the hedge fund managers, who slave away until their joints shatter like glass, leaving them to flop around on the sidewalk of Wall Street, helplessly pooping themselves.  Do any of you give a shit about what happens to oil execs, who work their fingers to the BONE, attenting conferences in Cabo, and banging their secretaries on the couch in their offices?  NO.  YOU DON'T.  Instead, you support worthless eaters who only do shit like physically assemble or repair the things that keep us alive or make life worth living.

Picasso?  PFFFFT!  He'd have been a real artist, if he'd have invented mortgage-bundling.  

You fuckers are ruining America, with your anti-capitalist moaning and making the parks all smelly with your endless complaining about our poor captains of industry.  I hope you're fucking happy.