The Tea Party LOVES America...

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think you've nailed it. Get enough bureaucracy going on, and everybody just sort of goes shell-shocked.

I think it goes beyond bureaucracy.  It's not the system, it's the information.  We have too much of it.

And it's so convoluted.

It is the system too, though, I think. It just wears people down.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

No, things really are more complex.  Seriously more so than in even the 1980s.

We know all kinds of things, but there's no such thing as a simple phone call anymore.

[Cramulus]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

I don't think there was a singular moment where stuff became absurdly complex, I think it builds gradually and you only realize the water's boiling after the fact.

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate. Like, Herman Cain describes a 9% flat tax as being the most fair possible tax system. But is it? In order to dissect that idea, you have to pull apart that idea of fairness, the role of government, and all the tangled side issues.

Politics has always been a language game, and that means that the symbols of communication we use are tangled up and misleading. Over time, I don't think that's changed in essence, only in intensity. The information age moves quickly -- you can find data and rhetoric to support any idea. This makes it a lot harder to get to the root of an issue. Objectivity is harder to spot than ever.

[Doktor Howl]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

I don't think there was a singular moment where stuff became absurdly complex, I think it builds gradually and you only realize the water's boiling after the fact.

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate. Like, Herman Cain describes a 9% flat tax as being the most fair possible tax system. But is it? In order to dissect that idea, you have to pull apart that idea of fairness, the role of government, and all the tangled side issues.

Politics has always been a language game, and that means that the symbols of communication we use are tangled up and misleading. Over time, I don't think that's changed in essence, only in intensity. The information age moves quickly -- you can find data and rhetoric to support any idea. This makes it a lot harder to get to the root of an issue. Objectivity is harder to spot than ever.

The 9% thing is Crazy Eddie trying to simply the system.

And it works, too, as long as you don't mind watching the middle class become the working class, the working class become the lower class, and the lower class become those people walking.

[kingyak]

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate.

I think the number of people who can see past the veil is constantly shrinking. Critical thinking isn't as common as it used to be and the system is ever-increasingly designed to stifle what critical thinking does occur.

[rong]

It's veils all the way down

[Freeky]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

I don't think there was a singular moment where stuff became absurdly complex, I think it builds gradually and you only realize the water's boiling after the fact.

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate. Like, Herman Cain describes a 9% flat tax as being the most fair possible tax system. But is it? In order to dissect that idea, you have to pull apart that idea of fairness, the role of government, and all the tangled side issues.

Politics has always been a language game, and that means that the symbols of communication we use are tangled up and misleading. Over time, I don't think that's changed in essence, only in intensity. The information age moves quickly -- you can find data and rhetoric to support any idea. This makes it a lot harder to get to the root of an issue. Objectivity is harder to spot than ever.

The 9% thing is Crazy Eddie trying to simply the system.

And it works, too, as long as you don't mind watching the middle class become the working class, the working class become the lower class, and the lower class become those people walking.

Has it been explained somewhere here why a flat tax does that?  I mean, it sounds like it ought to, people who make more money get to pay more money with the same percentage.  I want to know so I can go look for it, or make a thread or whatever.

[Doktor Howl]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

I don't think there was a singular moment where stuff became absurdly complex, I think it builds gradually and you only realize the water's boiling after the fact.

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate. Like, Herman Cain describes a 9% flat tax as being the most fair possible tax system. But is it? In order to dissect that idea, you have to pull apart that idea of fairness, the role of government, and all the tangled side issues.

Politics has always been a language game, and that means that the symbols of communication we use are tangled up and misleading. Over time, I don't think that's changed in essence, only in intensity. The information age moves quickly -- you can find data and rhetoric to support any idea. This makes it a lot harder to get to the root of an issue. Objectivity is harder to spot than ever.

The 9% thing is Crazy Eddie trying to simply the system.

And it works, too, as long as you don't mind watching the middle class become the working class, the working class become the lower class, and the lower class become those people walking.

Has it been explained somewhere here why a flat tax does that?  I mean, it sounds like it ought to, people who make more money get to pay more money with the same percentage.  I want to know so I can go look for it, or make a thread or whatever.

Because a flat tax high enough to generate the revenue garnered by the current system would be so high that poor people would be driven broke by it.

Also, poor people spend more money than rich people do, so the economy tends to dry up.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

[Freeky]

Question: Is this new (ish), or have we as a relatively enlightened crew merely seen past the veils of Order and Disorder and into the throbbing guts of Chaos?


That is to say, was the "simple" past only our blinders of (an)eris?

I don't think there was a singular moment where stuff became absurdly complex, I think it builds gradually and you only realize the water's boiling after the fact.

I think lots of people see past the veil -- anybody who can think critically can do it -- it's just that those truths are hard to communicate. Like, Herman Cain describes a 9% flat tax as being the most fair possible tax system. But is it? In order to dissect that idea, you have to pull apart that idea of fairness, the role of government, and all the tangled side issues.

Politics has always been a language game, and that means that the symbols of communication we use are tangled up and misleading. Over time, I don't think that's changed in essence, only in intensity. The information age moves quickly -- you can find data and rhetoric to support any idea. This makes it a lot harder to get to the root of an issue. Objectivity is harder to spot than ever.

The 9% thing is Crazy Eddie trying to simply the system.

And it works, too, as long as you don't mind watching the middle class become the working class, the working class become the lower class, and the lower class become those people walking.

Has it been explained somewhere here why a flat tax does that?  I mean, it sounds like it ought to, people who make more money get to pay more money with the same percentage.  I want to know so I can go look for it, or make a thread or whatever.

Because a flat tax high enough to generate the revenue garnered by the current system would be so high that poor people would be driven broke by it.

Also, poor people spend more money than rich people do, so the economy tends to dry up.

That almost makes sense.  But I have gathered now that like a graduated tax thing is better, yes?

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

I just snorted so hard I made my ears pop.  

[Freeky]

After a lot of soul searching, heavy research, and introspection, I think I can say with some certainty that ECONOMICS IS STUPID.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

I just snorted so hard I made my ears pop.  

Job creators! 

[Doktor Howl]

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

I just snorted so hard I made my ears pop.  

Job creators! 

I love that shit.  It's the sort of thing that keeps me interested in politics.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, under Cain's plan, capital gains income is not taxed at all, so important job creators like hedge fund managers and investment bankers will see significant tax reductions.

I just snorted so hard I made my ears pop.  

Job creators! 

I love that shit.  It's the sort of thing that keeps me interested in politics.

Seriously, just wow.