Measles Outbreak.

[The Rev]

I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the chickenpox vaccine, though. It seems less effective than contracting the disease and you have to get regular boosters. Granted, I had an epic case of the pox when I was 5, and when the nurse last year saw my titer test, she was like...damn, you had the disease, huh?

I know that it's not so much as as the chickenpox that's scary, but the side effects. Obviously you'll be susceptible to getting shingles when you're older since, because varicella is a form of herp-a-derp, it never leaves your body, but contracting true chickenpox as an adult is fucking scary once the shots wear off. I wasn't thrilled with having to get that fucking DTaP and the Hep B series, myself, but I still did it. I'd much rather get chickenpox again than Hep B.  

I had chickenpox and shingles. Granny taped socks on my hands so I wouldn't scratch with chickenpox because that's what scars so bad. Shingles came when I was 30 or so and I wouldn't wish that shit on anybody, it was the worst pain I have ever experienced.

[The Rev]

Is there an official name for the fallacy of "criticism of A is invalid, because B is so much worse"?

This is the most hurtful post you have ever made towards me.

[Disco Pickle]

More to the point, telling people they are retarded for their beliefs doesn't actually shame them into thinking about it and perhaps abandoning their faith, if anything, it tends to make them more obstinate in their beliefs.

If you're looking to actually make people more secular and more rational in their daily lives, castigating them for being a dumb motherfucker isn't really going to work now, is it?

Damn.

Well put.

(out of order quote follows)

Well, those that want the population to diminish, they should applaud this, as one of the side effects of these diseases is sterlization...

Again, I think the blase attitude would change if someone passed around pictures like how they did in Health class back in the old says--you see a series of syphillitic, pustulant dicks and vages, and you REALLY start to think you don't mind the jimmy-hat so much.

I was under the impression that sentiment runs very high on the board. 

Which has always confused me a little, considering a few other ideas that are popular here. 

But then, I'm frequently wrong and or misinterpret these sorts of things.

[Disco Pickle]

I agree with CB's post. 

I've always taken a bit of an issue with the attempt of humans to medically engineer (and socially engineer) natural pressures on the species to survive, out of existence. 

My parents innoculated my sister and me because that was the only way to attend school and it was the smart thing to do.  All of the basics, and the boosters.

I have made sure that my own son has received all of the same, and it's required by law in Mexico, even if I chose not to.

Still, after the first flu shot I received when I was, I don't know..  very young, and acquired a bad cold for months, my parents decided to never take me for a flu shot again.  I have never had one since, to this day, and get the "flu" maybe once every 2 years.  It's bad for 2 weeks and I spike a fever I have to break every 6-8 hours in the first week, and stay in bed, but other than that my body fights it off and is better for it.

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications. 

This doesn't even begin to address the issues of overpopulation of the planet and my own ideas on viruses being possibly the only check on human population, being THE dominant life form on this planet with no natural predators (other than ourselves) and the implications that has when we are attempting to medicate the effect of viruses out of the population.

Fodder for another post.  Maybe.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I appreciate hearing different viewpoints, but I will mock them if they're totally stupid. I find the "Why, when I was a kid we had polio, rocky mountain spotted fever, and spinal meningitis all rolled into one... half of us survived, I don't see what the big deal is" rhetoric painfully similar to the hipster malaise of refusing to be shocked or disturbed by anything. Being jaded and desensitized to suffering isn't a virtue.

I agree to that last...I'm not sure Hawk meant to imply that, but he can speak for himself.

I think my own husband has some issues in that aspect, that he has a litmus for "true suffering" that really makes me cringe.  Because like I said in another thread--how can we categorize anyone else's suffering other than our own?  It's a sketchy business at best.

I don't have to explain a fucking thing to that aggressive bitch, or any other motherfucker that wants to read things that I didn't say into my fucking words.

fwiw, I didn't read anything into your posts.

[Don Coyote]

I agree with CB's post. 

I've always taken a bit of an issue with the attempt of humans to medically engineer (and socially engineer) natural pressures on the species to survive, out of existence. 

My parents innoculated my sister and me because that was the only way to attend school and it was the smart thing to do.  All of the basics, and the boosters.

I have made sure that my own son has received all of the same, and it's required by law in Mexico, even if I chose not to.

Still, after the first flu shot I received when I was, I don't know..  very young, and acquired a bad cold for months, my parents decided to never take me for a flu shot again.  I have never had one since, to this day, and get the "flu" maybe once every 2 years.  It's bad for 2 weeks and I spike a fever I have to break every 6-8 hours in the first week, and stay in bed, but other than that my body fights it off and is better for it.

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications. 

This doesn't even begin to address the issues of overpopulation of the planet and my own ideas on viruses being possibly the only check on human population, being THE dominant life form on this planet with no natural predators (other than ourselves) and the implications that has when we are attempting to medicate the effect of viruses out of the population.

Fodder for another post.  Maybe.

So you would rather more people die as a means of population control instead of there being less people being born?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

BACK IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS, MAN. MOTHERS DRANK AND SMOKED THROUGH THEIR PREGNANCIES AND KIDS NEVER WORE SEAT BELTS AND BABIES JUST RODE IN THEY MAMMA'S LAP, WE WOULD JUST RUN AROUND ALL DAY UNSUPERVISED AND SWIM IN THE RIVER AND WE ALL GOT MEASLES, MUMPS, RUBELLA, CHICKEN POX, SMALLPOX, YELLOW FEVER, DENGUE FEVER, AND MALARIA AND WE ALL TURNED OUT JUST FINE. NO BABIES WERE EVER LOW BIRTH WEIGHT OR STILLBORN AND NOBODY EVER DIED OF CONTUSIONS AFTER A CAR ACCIDENT AND THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS CRIB DEATH AND NONE OF US EVER DROWNED OR WERE KIDNAPPED OR RAPED, THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS WERE BACK IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN PEOPLE WERE TOUGHER.

HERE'S A THOUGHT, GO FUCK YOURSELF BITCH. In the future, if I post anything that offends you...GOOD.

You can't offend me, Charley. You're too pitiful and histrionic to be anything more than a joke to me.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications.  

I don't think that's quite how it works with vaccines though. If you vaccinate everybody against a virus, not only do we become stronger, but we then have the ability to eradicate the virus entirely. Vaccinations stimulate your immune system to a particular antigen by showing your immune system what to attack. It's like giving a police dog a suspect's shirt.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications.  

I don't think that's quite how it works with vaccines though. If you vaccinate everybody against a virus, not only do we become stronger, but we then have the ability to eradicate the virus entirely. Vaccinations stimulate your immune system to a particular antigen by showing your immune system what to attack. It's like giving a police dog a suspect's shirt.

This.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

While looking up fallacies, I found this: http://richarddawkins.net/discussions/641922-the-wtf-fallacy-and-others

which reminded me of how much I hate atheists, because they are such pompous dicks. If I was World Empress, I would get anti-vaccers, rabid atheists, Anarchists, and Libertarians together in a big catered conference and not let anyone leave until they reached consensus.

So, life imprisonment, then.

At least they'll be well fed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

While looking up fallacies, I found this: http://richarddawkins.net/discussions/641922-the-wtf-fallacy-and-others

which reminded me of how much I hate atheists, because they are such pompous dicks. If I was World Empress, I would get anti-vaccers, rabid atheists, Anarchists, and Libertarians together in a big catered conference and not let anyone leave until they reached consensus.

So, life imprisonment, then.

At least they'll be well fed.

I would be a kind and benevolent World Empress.

[Telarus]

Is there an official name for the fallacy of "criticism of A is invalid, because B is so much worse"?

This is the most hurtful post you have ever made towards me.

Charlie, I literally had to read your post 3 times before I could clearly say to myself "He's not using the Dawkins argument. He's saying that some problems stem from systemic issues which aren't readily apparent if looking at acute issues." Course, it did help that I hallucinated Kai's avatar whispering 'Emergence' into my ear at the time.


I'd seriously chalk it up to misunderstanding and lack of clarification on both sides...

[Disco Pickle]

I agree with CB's post. 

I've always taken a bit of an issue with the attempt of humans to medically engineer (and socially engineer) natural pressures on the species to survive, out of existence. 

My parents innoculated my sister and me because that was the only way to attend school and it was the smart thing to do.  All of the basics, and the boosters.

I have made sure that my own son has received all of the same, and it's required by law in Mexico, even if I chose not to.

Still, after the first flu shot I received when I was, I don't know..  very young, and acquired a bad cold for months, my parents decided to never take me for a flu shot again.  I have never had one since, to this day, and get the "flu" maybe once every 2 years.  It's bad for 2 weeks and I spike a fever I have to break every 6-8 hours in the first week, and stay in bed, but other than that my body fights it off and is better for it.

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications. 

This doesn't even begin to address the issues of overpopulation of the planet and my own ideas on viruses being possibly the only check on human population, being THE dominant life form on this planet with no natural predators (other than ourselves) and the implications that has when we are attempting to medicate the effect of viruses out of the population.

Fodder for another post.  Maybe.

So you would rather more people die as a means of population control instead of there being less people being born?

No.  That would be a pretty callous position to take.

In an ideal world, less people would be born because all humans would consciously ignore the biological imperative to breed and instead focus on and care about the sustainability of the planet on which we live.

That world doesn't exist, and likely never will.

If a large host of our problems stem from overpopulation, and there's no end in sight to the exponential growth of population (not everywhere, but it's not necessary for it to BE everywhere for exponents to still be a factor) then what about the moral implications regarding the attempt to eliminate any natural mortal pressures on the dominant species (us) on the planet, not even mentioning the attempt to extend our lifespan 10 years more (or so) every century?

I really struggle with this one. 

[Don Coyote]

I agree with CB's post. 

I've always taken a bit of an issue with the attempt of humans to medically engineer (and socially engineer) natural pressures on the species to survive, out of existence. 

My parents innoculated my sister and me because that was the only way to attend school and it was the smart thing to do.  All of the basics, and the boosters.

I have made sure that my own son has received all of the same, and it's required by law in Mexico, even if I chose not to.

Still, after the first flu shot I received when I was, I don't know..  very young, and acquired a bad cold for months, my parents decided to never take me for a flu shot again.  I have never had one since, to this day, and get the "flu" maybe once every 2 years.  It's bad for 2 weeks and I spike a fever I have to break every 6-8 hours in the first week, and stay in bed, but other than that my body fights it off and is better for it.

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications. 

This doesn't even begin to address the issues of overpopulation of the planet and my own ideas on viruses being possibly the only check on human population, being THE dominant life form on this planet with no natural predators (other than ourselves) and the implications that has when we are attempting to medicate the effect of viruses out of the population.

Fodder for another post.  Maybe.

So you would rather more people die as a means of population control instead of there being less people being born?

No.  That would be a pretty callous position to take.

In an ideal world, less people would be born because all humans would consciously ignore the biological imperative to breed and instead focus on and care about the sustainability of the planet on which we live.

That world doesn't exist, and likely never will.

If a large host of our problems stem from overpopulation, and there's no end in sight to the exponential growth of population (not everywhere, but it's not necessary for it to BE everywhere for exponents to still be a factor) then what about the moral implications regarding the attempt to eliminate any natural mortal pressures on the dominant species (us) on the planet, not even mentioning the attempt to extend our lifespan 10 years more (or so) every century?

I really struggle with this one. 

Education solves that problem. Or are you under the belief that despite the correlation between the level of education and the age at which men and women start having children is just coincidence?

Furthermore, it is not a biological imperative to reproduce, it a simply that sex feels really good. We like doing things that feel good. That is the same reason that animals do it. it feels good. They aren't thinking, "OMG I MUST HAZ TEH BABBIES!!!!" Do a lot of humans think that way? Yes they do, but that is because we notice the correlation between intercourse and pregnancy.

[Disco Pickle]

I agree with CB's post. 

I've always taken a bit of an issue with the attempt of humans to medically engineer (and socially engineer) natural pressures on the species to survive, out of existence. 

My parents innoculated my sister and me because that was the only way to attend school and it was the smart thing to do.  All of the basics, and the boosters.

I have made sure that my own son has received all of the same, and it's required by law in Mexico, even if I chose not to.

Still, after the first flu shot I received when I was, I don't know..  very young, and acquired a bad cold for months, my parents decided to never take me for a flu shot again.  I have never had one since, to this day, and get the "flu" maybe once every 2 years.  It's bad for 2 weeks and I spike a fever I have to break every 6-8 hours in the first week, and stay in bed, but other than that my body fights it off and is better for it.

In this rush to protect ourselves from viruses, are we making ourselves weaker?  Certain types aggressively mutate to become immune to anti-viral medications. 

This doesn't even begin to address the issues of overpopulation of the planet and my own ideas on viruses being possibly the only check on human population, being THE dominant life form on this planet with no natural predators (other than ourselves) and the implications that has when we are attempting to medicate the effect of viruses out of the population.

Fodder for another post.  Maybe.

So you would rather more people die as a means of population control instead of there being less people being born?

No.  That would be a pretty callous position to take.

In an ideal world, less people would be born because all humans would consciously ignore the biological imperative to breed and instead focus on and care about the sustainability of the planet on which we live.

That world doesn't exist, and likely never will.

If a large host of our problems stem from overpopulation, and there's no end in sight to the exponential growth of population (not everywhere, but it's not necessary for it to BE everywhere for exponents to still be a factor) then what about the moral implications regarding the attempt to eliminate any natural mortal pressures on the dominant species (us) on the planet, not even mentioning the attempt to extend our lifespan 10 years more (or so) every century?

I really struggle with this one. 

Education solves that problem. Or are you under the belief that despite the correlation between the level of education and the age at which men and women start having children is just coincidence?

Furthermore, it is not a biological imperative to reproduce, it a simply that sex feels really good. We like doing things that feel good. That is the same reason that animals do it. it feels good. They aren't thinking, "OMG I MUST HAZ TEH BABBIES!!!!" Do a lot of humans think that way? Yes they do, but that is because we notice the correlation between intercourse and pregnancy.

I know education solves that problem.  But education isn't happening fast enough to keep up.  I'm not convinced it ever will.

They aren't thinking, "OMG I MUST HAZ TEH BABBIES!!!!"

I've known more women (and a few men, though not nearly as many) who think (or thought, before they actually had a few) that way than I have who decide to wait or not have them altogether.