Mandatory Anthrax vaccinations for children?

[Don Coyote]

I just heard on NPR that Obama and crew are considering whether to start testing the Anthrax vaccine on children.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/possible-study-of-anthrax-vaccines-effectiveness-in-children-stirs-debate/2011/10/13/gIQAFWLdDM_story.html

The Obama administration is wrestling with the thorny question of whether scientists should inject healthy children with the anthrax vaccine to see whether the shots would safely protect them against a bioterrorism attack.

The other option is to wait until an attack happens and then try to gather data from children whose parents agree to inoculate them in the face of an actual threat.

A key working group of federal advisers in September endorsed testing, sparking objections from those who consider that step unethical, unnecessary and dangerous. The National Biodefense Safety Board (NBSB), which advises the federal government, meets Friday to vote on its working group's recommendation.

I am not sure how I feel about this. I've been vaccinated 3 times for it, and it hurt more each booster.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What is the realistic likelihood of a widespread Anthrax attack involving children? I was not aware that this was a real, plausible threat. It sounds like pure idiocy, unless there is a strong likelihood of a large sector of the general population being exposed to Anthrax. In which case, there's a REALLY REALLY big issue, which is obtaining a large enough quantity of Anthrax vaccine to inoculate the adult population.

[Don Coyote]

What is the realistic likelihood of a widespread Anthrax attack involving children? I was not aware that this was a real, plausible threat. It sounds like pure idiocy, unless there is a strong likelihood of a large sector of the general population being exposed to Anthrax. In which case, there's a REALLY REALLY big issue, which is obtaining a large enough quantity of Anthrax vaccine to inoculate the adult population.

Ya, it hasn't seemed likely this whole decade. I don't think the pain of the anthrax vaccine is worth the very very slim chance a widespread anthrax based attack would happen.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What is the realistic likelihood of a widespread Anthrax attack involving children? I was not aware that this was a real, plausible threat. It sounds like pure idiocy, unless there is a strong likelihood of a large sector of the general population being exposed to Anthrax. In which case, there's a REALLY REALLY big issue, which is obtaining a large enough quantity of Anthrax vaccine to inoculate the adult population.

Ya, it hasn't seemed likely this whole decade. I don't think the pain of the anthrax vaccine is worth the very very slim chance a widespread anthrax based attack would happen.

Not just pain, either, but the probability of a certain % of children suffering serious side effects (inherent in every vaccine) vs. the likelihood of a greater number of children being exposed to Anthrax. And again, if that were the case, we would really need to be focusing on inoculating the adult population.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Anthrax is the bug man's best friend.  It survives anywhere, for decades or even centuries, which is why Welsh people digging up old compost heaps wind up dead with their blood looking like jello pudding (or getting exiled to Seattle).

That being said, universal Anthrax vaccinations seem a little over the top. 

Someone stands to make a buck on this, is what I'm thinking.

[Cain]

Meanwhile, the only people to have actually used anthrax in a campaign of terrorism are almost certainly US government employees.

[Cramulus]

My buddy in the Air Force says he got really fucked up by his Anthrax vaccine. He says that a result of the vaccine, his body temperature is constantly 2 or 3 degrees higher than normal. His skin is warm to the touch, and he rarely wears a coat during winter.

That vaccine was controversial when they made it mandatory for the military too, no?

I don't know how you do a risk/benefit analysis of something like an anthrax breakout.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Meanwhile, the only people to have actually used anthrax in a campaign of terrorism are almost certainly US government employees.

Yep.

[Freckleback]

male hpv vaccination would be a much better plan.

[Cain]

Meanwhile, the only people to have actually used anthrax in a campaign of terrorism are almost certainly US government employees.

Yep.

Latest news on that:

All the evidence in the public domain is consistent with the concept that the spore coats of the attack anthrax were silicone-coated. Silicone polymers are typically formed by hydrolysis of a silicon compound such as dimethyldichlorosilane (or other silanes with similar substituents), which contains no oxygen. Hydrolysis replaces the chlorine atoms with oxygen to form dimethylsilanol, which polymerizes spontaneously to form polydimethylsiloxane, containing silicon and oxygen in equal amounts. The polydimethylsiloxane chains can then be cross-linked ("cured") to form a three-dimensional silicone coating for encapsulation. This step requires an organotin catalyst such as a dibutyltin dicarboxylate.

A procedure of this kind can be envisioned for encapsulating B. anthracis spores. Silane monomers like dimethyldichlorosilane are low-molecular-weight liquids that probably can penetrate the exosporium, the loose-fitting membrane sac that encloses the spore. If silane monomers were added to a suspension of dry spores in an organic solvent, the silane would not contact moisture until it reached the spore coat, where residual moisture diffusing from the core inside the spore would cause hydrolysis, followed by polymerization at the spore coat. The polysiloxane chains that would be formed at the spore coat could then be cross-linked to encapsulate the spore. This step would require continued diffusion of moisture from inside the spore, as well as an organotin catalyst. Organotins have low solubility in water but, like silanes, are soluble in organic solvents such as ether, carbon tetrachloride, etc. The ratio of tin to silicon in the attack spores is "about right" for a tin catalyst used to produce a silicone coating,
according to a chemist in the field.

It would be difficult not to conclude that the spores in the attack letters were prepared for some purpose other than terrorism. Potential procedures that might be applicable for silicone coating of spores, barely touched on here, are complex, highly esoteric processes that could not possibly have been carried out by a single individual. They would require a laboratory with specialized capabilities and expertise not found at USAMRIID, in addition to the possession of the correct strains of B. anthracis Ames associated with flask RMR 1029.

In other words, Bruce Ivins could not have weaponized the anthrax, and so was definitely not guilty.

It also turns out noted National Security State shill Judith Miller (she of "Ahmed Chalabi told me Saddam had WMD" infamy) was heavily touting a new biological warfare facility a week before September 11th.

Also, when Miller received a fake anthrax letter, her reaction was one of someone completely unfamiliar with bioweapons, which her experience as a journalist covering bioweapon developments for several years would suggest is not, in fact, accurate.

Unless, of course, she already knew it was fake.

But of course, that's crazy, paranoid thinking.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

male hpv vaccination would be a much better plan.

They're already giving it to boys; I have several friends who have had their sons vaccinated and mine is scheduled at his next visit.

[Freckleback]

male hpv vaccination would be a much better plan.

They're already giving it to boys; I have several friends who have had their sons vaccinated and mine is scheduled at his next visit.

Oh, awesome. 

I'm much more afraid of genital rotting cancer than i am of anthrax.  So if they're gonna make any vaccine mandatory it should be male/female hpv.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

male hpv vaccination would be a much better plan.

They're already giving it to boys; I have several friends who have had their sons vaccinated and mine is scheduled at his next visit.

Oh, awesome. 

I'm much more afraid of genital rotting cancer than i am of anthrax.  So if they're gonna make any vaccine mandatory it should be male/female hpv.

Here's a really good CDC press release: http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2011/t1025_hpv_12yroldvaccine.html?source=govdelivery

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Eventually it is possible that they will clear it for older men and women, too, though most likely it would have to be an out-of-pocket expense.

[Don Coyote]

My buddy in the Air Force says he got really fucked up by his Anthrax vaccine. He says that a result of the vaccine, his body temperature is constantly 2 or 3 degrees higher than normal. His skin is warm to the touch, and he rarely wears a coat during winter.

That vaccine was controversial when they made it mandatory for the military too, no?

I don't know how you do a risk/benefit analysis of something like an anthrax breakout.

Yep. A bunch of soldiers got  shat on for refusing the vaccine. That was like 4 years ago I think. As of at least 09, I don't recall reading any literature against it, and don't know of any soldier in the last 2 years having negative side-effects to it.