I don't know where the random links thread is

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, November 10, 2011, 06:08:09 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cain

You realise this means someone is going to have to explain CHIM.  And the Heart of Lorkhan.  And the 36 Lessons of Vivec.  And, well, Vivec.

Not to mention the clusterfuck that is Numidian (though at least I have a fairly convincing explanation for that).

President Television

Quote from: Cain on February 19, 2015, 07:31:22 PM
You realise this means someone is going to have to explain CHIM.  And the Heart of Lorkhan.  And the 36 Lessons of Vivec.  And, well, Vivec.

Not to mention the clusterfuck that is Numidian (though at least I have a fairly convincing explanation for that).

I'm not gonna lie, I get a headache every time I think about Kirkbride's fluff.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Cain

What's complicated about a dead, dreaming God using the Heart of a Trickster-God responsible for the creation of reality to power up a fascimile of the principle of negation in order to overthrow three false gods, one of whom has realised the nature of reality through love, in order to break time and allow him to mantle said dead trickster god in order to defeat and break the Empire, who has a metaphysical bodyguard in the form of Talos, the God-Emperor of Mankind, who is the three-in-one Enantionmorph of Tiber Septim, Zurin Arcturus and Wulfharth.

President Television

Quote from: Cain on February 19, 2015, 07:57:28 PM
What's complicated about a dead, dreaming God using the Heart of a Trickster-God responsible for the creation of reality to power up a fascimile of the principle of negation in order to overthrow three false gods, one of whom has realised the nature of reality through love, in order to break time and allow him to mantle said dead trickster god in order to defeat and break the Empire, who has a metaphysical bodyguard in the form of Talos, the God-Emperor of Mankind, who is the three-in-one Enantionmorph of Tiber Septim, Zurin Arcturus and Wulfharth.

You forgot the part where Talos himself is probably mantling said trickster god to begin with. At least, if there's anything to the Aldmeri Dominion's plot in Skyrim he is.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Cain

Yup.  That's why Dagoth Ur has to mantle him.  Hence why Dagoth Ur is keen on getting the Neverarine to Red Mountain, to replicate the Enantionmorph with the Sharmat, Hortator and Witness.  By mantling Lorkhan, he breaks the Dragon and the Serpent and, in theory, removes the upstart Talos' influence over the world.  Of course, in practice, Talos has achieved CHIM, which kinda screws up all plans of that kind.  Dagoth Ur may have succeeded, since he had achieved a kind of anti-CHIM, if you believe his mad ravings, but the Thalmor certainly wont.

President Television

Quote from: Cain on February 19, 2015, 08:15:31 PM
Yup.  That's why Dagoth Ur has to mantle him.  Hence why Dagoth Ur is keen on getting the Neverarine to Red Mountain, to replicate the Enantionmorph with the Sharmat, Hortator and Witness.  By mantling Lorkhan, he breaks the Dragon and the Serpent and, in theory, removes the upstart Talos' influence over the world.  Of course, in practice, Talos has achieved CHIM, which kinda screws up all plans of that kind.  Dagoth Ur may have succeeded, since he had achieved a kind of anti-CHIM, if you believe his mad ravings, but the Thalmor certainly wont.

That's the part that got me about Skyrim. I know their plan is to weaken Talos by depriving him of worshipers, but where in the lore is it ever implied that the gods need worship? The Thalmor are pretty quick to jump the gun on their assumptions about reality. Which actually makes a lot of sense, given that they're Nazi analogues.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Cain

It is mentioned in Gods and Worship.  Aedra, having spent their power in the creation of Mundus, do require worship to maintain influence over events in Mundus.  But Talos isn't an Aedra, probably has CHIM and may even function as a metaphysical Tower.

Which isn't to say it isn't impossible to undo him, only that the current Thalmor effort at banning Talos worship wont do it alone.  It may just be that banning Talos worship is a tactical move designed to divide the Empire, while working on other methods (Eye of Magnus, perhaps the Dragon Cult) to undo him.

Eater of Clowns

I used to follow Elder Scrolls lore like you, until I took an arrow to the knee.  :sad:
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: President Television on February 19, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 12, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
Quote from: Cain on February 11, 2015, 06:20:06 PM
DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVO3lrbyS9w

:eek:

:lol: WTF

That's Dagoth Ur, the primary antagonist of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. He's kinda an undead god-king thing... Except he isn't, because the metaphysics of the in-game setting are kinda screwy like that. Technically, he isn't undead so much as he's anti-alive. Even that's a sloppy explanation.
Anyway, he was the player character's bro in a past life and it's the player's job to "kill" him, whatever that even means.

Anti-alive in a similar manner to D&D undead?
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

President Television

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on February 19, 2015, 08:51:23 PM
Quote from: President Television on February 19, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 12, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
Quote from: Cain on February 11, 2015, 06:20:06 PM
DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVO3lrbyS9w

:eek:

:lol: WTF

That's Dagoth Ur, the primary antagonist of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. He's kinda an undead god-king thing... Except he isn't, because the metaphysics of the in-game setting are kinda screwy like that. Technically, he isn't undead so much as he's anti-alive. Even that's a sloppy explanation.
Anyway, he was the player character's bro in a past life and it's the player's job to "kill" him, whatever that even means.

Anti-alive in a similar manner to D&D undead?

Nope. That'd be regular undead. Dagoth-Ur is an entirely different thing altogether.
In The Elder Scrolls, when you die you go to a plane called the Dreamsleeve, where you experience whatever afterlife you believed in until you reincarnate. This is also where you go when you sleep, which is why you dream. When you're awake, you're in the material plane, or Mundus. So if you're alive, you can occupy one of two states:
Alive, Awake in Mundus(AlAwMu), or Alive, Dreaming in the Dreamsleeve(AlDrDS)

Now, undead do exist, but the way necromancy works in The Elder Scrolls is that the dead are awakened from their rest in the Dreamsleeve, bringing them back to Mundus in the service of the caster. This means the dead can occupy two possible states:
Dead, Dreaming in the Dreamsleeve(DeDrDS), or Dead, Awake in Mundus(DeAwMu)

Dagoth Ur occupies none of these states. He was killed millennia ago, quite thoroughly, but due to shenanigans involving the heart of a dead trickster god, Dagoth Ur is actually solipsistically dreaming his own presence in Mundus.
As such, he is Dead, Dreaming in Mundus(DeDrMu). This is impossible.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: President Television on February 19, 2015, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 12, 2015, 12:43:45 AM
Quote from: Cain on February 11, 2015, 06:20:06 PM
DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR DAGOTH UR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVO3lrbyS9w

:eek:

:lol: WTF

That's Dagoth Ur, the primary antagonist of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. He's kinda an undead god-king thing... Except he isn't, because the metaphysics of the in-game setting are kinda screwy like that. Technically, he isn't undead so much as he's anti-alive. Even that's a sloppy explanation.
Anyway, he was the player character's bro in a past life and it's the player's job to "kill" him, whatever that even means.

That link keeps throwing "403 Forbidden" errors
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Cain

The Heart of Lorkhan: not even once.

Quote from: When Dead Gods Dream"But Dagoth Ur was not at the outside of the Wheel observing the 'I' from there. No, he was at the center looking out; and what would you see if you were at the very center of a wheel and looked toward the rim, something resembling an 'I' extending forever – a false symbolism for the false dreamer, from the center he would have his viewpoint and his "world of reference" for seeing his false symbolism. And what did Dagoth Ur do before his fall, he attempted to create all his servants "in his flesh, and of his flesh" and controlled their minds as one – so perhaps he was molding the world around him to suite his own 'I', making them all 'A whole World of Him'. As the Cultists said "He is All Things", or at least he strove to be."

An interesting end to Morrowind would've been convincing Dagoth Ur he was wrong about being at the centre of the Wheel, because, if I'm not mistaken, he then would've zero-summed.

Possibly a bit esoteric, but it wouldn't have been any worse than, say, convincing Saren to kill himself in Mass Effect 1.  Only with a more convoluted reasoning.

Junkenstein

It would have been a nice planescape-style way to finish up rather than "hit win object in telegraphed sequence". Surely there's a mod for it.

Incidentally, I love that it's 2015 and there's a conversation about CHIM. Morrowind was fucking awesome.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain

Skywind is still being worked on.  I mean, its in Alpha, and probably will be until 2016 at earliest.   But it's still being worked on, and it looks pretty amazing.

The minute that shit is public released, I will be all over it.  There are only two things I don't like about Morrowind: the combat system, and the outdated graphics.  Skywind solves both of those problems.

President Television

Quote from: Cain on February 21, 2015, 12:47:24 AM
Skywind is still being worked on.  I mean, its in Alpha, and probably will be until 2016 at earliest.   But it's still being worked on, and it looks pretty amazing.

The minute that shit is public released, I will be all over it.  There are only two things I don't like about Morrowind: the combat system, and the outdated graphics.  Skywind solves both of those problems.

What I love about Morrowind is that even though the graphics are garbage, you can still tell that what you're looking at is really cool and original. It's the difference between good graphics and good art direction.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.